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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

482 replies

WilsonandJackie · 16/08/2019 06:21

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/08/2019 19:06

catofdoom, your impression of Steiner folk matches mine.

bogginmacaroni · 17/08/2019 19:09

Can I just say as the working class skint one of my Siblings, this is something that my middle class brothers(did well for themselves and look their noses down on their upbringing) really think is unacceptable. Their kids are not permitted to play in the street, they don't know their neighbours despite living in highly desirable areas of the UK. Their kids are ferried to play dates and never allowed to go "free range" as they call it. Sorry but I know what I prefer.

ChiaraRimini · 17/08/2019 21:30

I live in the U.K. in a very international city with colleagues from all over the world.
All the US citizens think the NHS is the best thing since sliced bread and for me that trumps any halcyon vision of childhood. If you or your child has an expensive long term health condition, insurance may well not cover you.

soulrider · 17/08/2019 21:53

soulrider East St Louis is very much the poster child for extreme urban decay and poverty in the US.
It would be hard to find a comparable community even within the US

Equally impoverished in parts of rural Missouri too - just not quite so concentrated

dreichhighlands · 17/08/2019 22:02

My dc are currently living in Chicago, they have a nice childhood but an urban one but not the suburban one you describe OP although family still in Scotland do have that kind of childhood.
My dc are very lucky, I'm a court advocate for a couple of dc in South Chicago and their experience is very different to my dc. The impact of limited jobs, poor healthcare access, food deserts, underfunded public schools and violence shouldn't be underestimated.
There are plenty of difficult childhoods in the USA.

NameChangerOfTheNorth · 17/08/2019 22:05

Life in the inner cities of America is very different, though. You experienced one neighbourhood, in what seems a very middle class area.
I wouldn't swap the rapidly disintegrating social safety net and protections we have over here for the US. I have family living there and it's not such a sweet life if you're poor, disabled or not a white man.

formerbabe · 17/08/2019 22:05

Here where I live in London, the only primary aged children who play out unsupervised are from the very lowest class families. I don't mean working class. I mean underclass types...think chaotic lives, drink, drugs, anti social behaviour.

Lalotai47 · 17/08/2019 22:33

I taught in a deprived area in the USA. It was the worst employment experience of my life. Aside from the regular shooter drills, there were 8 year olds sick with worry about not passing exams and being kept back a year, outdated teaching practices consisting of chalk-and-talk methods rather than hands-on learning, shockingly unhealthy school food, minimal maternity leave ...the list goes on. Lots of us UK teachers quit the program and went home as the job was so awful. The poor kids barely got any playtime and the teachers were expected to pay for various classroom resources and outdoor play equipment for the children out of our salaries. It was grim.

I hated the reliance on a car to get anywhere and the fact that I couldn't get things like free-range eggs anywhere! I met several people who needed to see a doctor but couldn't afford it as no health insurance. Recycling seemed to be non-existent in this area.

I think the USA is amazing to visit. I could never live there. I am not basing that on that one experience as have family members who live there and have spent quite some time living and working there in various jobs. One relative got two weeks annual leave for the first ten years she worked for a company. Thereafter she got three whole weeks. Maternity leave was 6 weeks when I was there about 10 years ago. A lot of babies go to daycare full time from a very young age over there as parental leave is minimal.

globetrotter141 · 17/08/2019 22:39

Grumiosmun. Interested to know where you got the stat that 7% of Americans own passports? Load of rubbish. More like 42%! Please don't give people completely wrong information about a country , or at least check facts first. I'm not American by the way, I just find it v frustrating when people share really inaccurate and misleading info on public forums like this. Your 'fact' suggests that a lot of Americans have never traveled and know nothing about the world. It's not true and it feeds stereotypes.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 18/08/2019 00:33

Things have definitely changed for the better re. holidays and maternity leave in recent years, DH's employees even introduced paternity leave two years ago....one of his colleagues is deliberately having his family now to take advantage of it!

DH and the older Dads are envious and jokingly asked whether you can take it retroactively as it didn't exist when their DC were born...ours are 14 and 11, so v. retroactive! Grin

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 18/08/2019 00:34

*employers, not employees.

Doyoureallyneedtoask · 18/08/2019 00:43

@Mathsanxiety I would be far more concerned about what would become of my DCs, socially and academically, if they were to attend my old secondary school in Dublin. (The vast majority of my former classmates agree with me on that).

In fairness, with the exception of some of the wealthiest suburbs, Dublin is a shithole.

It isn’t fair to say that posters can’t use certain areas of the US as examples of deprived, anti social areas and then use Dublin as your own example!

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 05:37

I disagree wrt Dublin - certainly there are some shitholes but overall it's a place where people can feel comfortable.

choli · 18/08/2019 05:55

I disagree wrt Dublin - certainly there are some shitholes but overall it's a place where people can feel comfortable
not really. You may feel comfortable there. I hate the place and find it very threatening and uncomfortable.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 06:10

I think if we look at the essence of the OP's posts here she is talking about cultural differences - attitudes to teens, expectations of teens, interests of teens, what teens are focusing on in each country, what really stands out in terms of difference.

Doyoureallyneedtoask · 18/08/2019 11:08

not really. You may feel comfortable there. I hate the place and find it very threatening and uncomfortable.

This is exactly what it’s like. There is a vice there that causes people to be fearful walking around. People are targeted for the fun of the hunt/gang mentality, stealing their possessions is just a bonus.

dayslikethese1 · 18/08/2019 11:27

So according to many posters on this thread British people are mean, materialistic and unfriendly and teenagers are louts who stand on street corners threatening old ladies (caked in make-up of course!) Seems a bit of an extreme conclusion. I live in a UK city (not London) and I can't say I see this particularly (well not more than anywhere else anyway). I'm often surprised by how polite teenagers are in fact as the way ppl go on you don't expect it. Also, I often see kids playing outside. Can't comment on the US as never been there but as it's so big I'm sure it's impossible that there's one experience of childhood.

dayslikethese1 · 18/08/2019 11:30

Actually I feel a bit sorry for teens, on the local forums round here there are endless posts complaining about them 'hanging around' but they've gotta go somewhere and they're usually just hanging around with friends as teens do (unless you prefer them to stay inside on a screen).

TomPinch · 18/08/2019 11:59

Isn't it better to ask what Unicef have to say? Well, a link is here. There is a handy table on the tenth page. In brief:

  1. Child poverty: no Anglophone countries do well. Ireland and Australia are middling. UK lower middle. Canada does badly and the US just about the worst.
  1. Child hunger: NZ middling. UK, Australia, Ireland, Canada, US among the worst.
  1. Good health and well-being: UK middling, Ireland somewhat below: all the rest among the worst.
  1. Quality education: UK and Ireland middling. All others among the worst. (I'm a bit surprised by this because similar comparisons on education have Canada and Australia and NZ doing well, and the UK and Ireland poorly).
  1. Decent work and economic growth: Canada good, US middling. All others among the worst.

So if there is one thing to take away, it's raise your children in a rich country that isn't Anglophone. Also, given that the US is such a big place, one would expect it to tack towards the middle. In fact it comes out poorly on every measure so if there are nice places (like New England) there must be some third-world conditions elsewhere in the US.

That's from 2017. Here is another one from 2013.

  • Material well-being: UK, Ireland and Canada middling: US shit.
  • Health and safety: UK and Ireland middling, US and Canada shit.
  • Education: Canada and Ireland middling: UK and US shit.
  • Behaviours and risks: Ireland good, UK and Canada middling: US shit.
  • Housing and environment: Ireland outstanding, UK and Canada OK, US shit.

No data on Australia or NZ in that report.

Once again it appears that the best countries a rich and non-Anglophone. I expect no one will be surprised when I say the Nordic countries do the best.

Doubtlessly it's possible to have a good childhood in any of those places, but those are the averages. But as an answer to the OP, it seems that the UK is a crap place to bring up a child but Canada is no better and the US on average is worse.

TomPinch · 18/08/2019 12:02

Another point is that emigrants are likely to find their resident country appears more favourable to the one they came from. That's because emigrants - leastways English-speaking ones are likely to have a more comfortable existence than is normal for the locals as they're more likely to have good jobs etc. I could easily say that my children's environment in NZ is better than the UK average, but that would ignore the poor conditions on the other side of the town I live in.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 13:34

In your link Canada is in 8th place for education whereas the UK is 20th - how is this UK middling and all others shit?

SusanneLinder · 18/08/2019 15:56

I have lived in the US, and visited Canada and have family who live there.

I liked the US, but we had employer insurance that covered us if we were ill. I was shocked at how much medication costs over there. Someone we knew had asthma, and struggled to get her inhalers as her insurance wasn't great for ongoing conditions.
I had kids and kids life there was very "scheduled". Play dates, soccer etc. There was very little free time to be kids IMO. I lived in a city so there was no playing out ( safe upmarket area), nannies took kids to park. Very hothousing re kids education and people had to save for college education, unless scholarships. I hated the gun culture.
I visited a suburban area of a major Canadian city. No kids played out there either. I asked why, and mainly due to drug situation and shootings ( I was shocked, this was a good area).House prices were shocking and I get that is happening in certain parts of UK, but not my area (oop North). Childcare really expensive, worse than here.
Same problem in Canada as here, lack of GP's so many walk in clinics where you don't see same GP. And its not free. I did like that they were open long hrs though. One of our relatives got an appt at 7am.
You cannot get a cab from main city to suburbs at night, because they won't take you as they can't get a fare back. Night buses, not a great idea.
I will never complain about UK TV again. In Canada/US its full of reality crap that you get on those little watched Sat channels or game shows.
Despite having fab supermarkets, apart from salad, few people seem to cook healthy food with veg. Lot of barbecuing going on.
I have never seen so many homeless as I did in Canada in the city. It was eyewatering and I have been to many cities across the world. Much bigger than Paris/London/New York.
Here where I live, kids do play out on bikes/ play with friends etc. Yes, there are some cheeky teenagers here, but most are fine.
I enjoyed my time in US and Canada but I would never live there. Grass is certainly not greener.

tequilasunrises · 18/08/2019 16:34

I grew up in a village in the South West (UK) and my childhood was basically what you describe! In my cul de sac all the kids new each other and we would walk to and from primary school together then play out on our bikes/scooters until dinner time, then out again.

When we got a bit older my friends and I used to camp a lot, and build fires (although there was a lot of beer involved Blush). My summers as a teen consisted of camping, day trips into different towns, sleepovers, going to the local woodland and having a bbq/swimming in the lake. I had a Saturday job from when I was 14 too.

I genuinely do feel like we were carefree and happy.

I’m 26 though, perhaps things have changed.

grumiosmum · 18/08/2019 16:40

globetrotter141 You obviously didn't bother to read the whole thread. I updated with a letter post accepting that my information was out of date, and apologising.

grumiosmum · 18/08/2019 16:40

later not letter

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