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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

482 replies

WilsonandJackie · 16/08/2019 06:21

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

OP posts:
whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:16

@Strokethefurrywall I hated the fact that academic achievement was celebrated so intensely. It made those who weren't academic feel like they weren't worthy. The annual graduation ceremonies for just rising to the next year were torture for my daughter who rarely won an academic prize. Too much emphasis on being 'an all A grade student'.

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:17

@whotheeff they don't in any of the state schools where I live.

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:19

@catofdoom where are you in the states? It sounds like Narnia!Hmm

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:20

@catofdoom jeez Nirvana not NarniaGrin

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2019 18:21

Narnia worked!

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:22

@MarshaBradyo GrinWink

Screamanger · 17/08/2019 18:22

I believe catofdoom is in Maine (same as me) which is one of the safest states

mathanxiety · 17/08/2019 18:23

Most after school events and sporting activities in Atlanta requires a huge amount of fund raising by the students as the costs were astronomical even in the state schools.

whotheeff
Where I am, the schools are supported by property taxes that are a good deal higher than average compared to other states, and locally they are higher still.

I paid a 'pay to play' of $55 per athlete per season for all the sports my DCs played in high school. They got coaching, uniforms/swimsuit/water polo suit/entire American football kit incl helmet, and travel on the school buses or bus company buses for that $50. We bought our own hockey stick/shinguards/mouthguards/badminton racquet/footwear.

Students receiving free/reduced price school lunch and/or fee waivers paid nothing.

The football team got local business sponsorship and sold discount cards to fund special drives for new equipment.

There is a booster club that sells merchandise online, in the school bookstore and at all games and events in the school (musicals, plays, etc) as well as at all parent evenings, incoming class tour evenings, financial aid for college presentations and more, and it organises a big annual dinner that is very well subscribed.
Local RC elementary schools do a 'wear your high school colours' day for 8th graders, resulting in brisk sales.

In RC elementary the pay to play was higher (around $100 iirc) but that included strip. There were optional extras that raised a little money - a sweatshirt, sweatpants, a sports awards dinner where a hat was passed around. The annual school auction raised upwards of $150k and other fundraising contributed another $100k, some of which supported the extracurricular sports programmes.

I suspect there is a difference between 'red' and 'blue' states when it comes to how much the local community is willing to pony up to support public resources. I am in Illinois, in one of the state's bluest areas.

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:29

Yes I'm in Maine.

Our school budget is $27,000 per pupil this year. We also have a huge property tax base to draw on.

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:30

It's actually very like Narnia. It gets warm for a few months though. Grin

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:30

@mathanxiety we had some of the highest property taxes in the country in 30327 which is why it always amazed me that people didn't use what they paid for and still opted for private schools. It is an area with a lot of old money though so a lot of kids were 'grandfathered' into private schools.

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2019 18:30

Catofdoom what is your impression of Boston as a city to live in?

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:33

@MarshaBradyo from what I've seen it looks like a great place to live. I have a couple of friends there.

Driving is unreal though. Think rush hour in Shanghai and that's about it. I drove in London for 15 years, have driven a lot in NYC, all over Europe- NOTHING comes close to how bad Boston drivers are. (We don't call them 'Massholes' for nothing GrinGrin.)

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:35

I don't think we even have any private schools where I am but I might be wrong.

Apart from the Waldorf/Steiners and quite frankly with their vaccination rates I'd avoid them like the plague.

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2019 18:36

I agree with that! I lived there for a year - I was early 20s so I don’t know what it’s like for a family hence question - and drove from NYC to Boston.

NYC was easy peasy in comparison. Plus I was on the other side of the road and it was snowing. I was eeeek

MarshaBradyo · 17/08/2019 18:37

Tbh Maine does sound nice. Boston felt quite similar to Melbourne and my experience of London.

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:37

@catofdoom no pun intended?Grin Don't get me started on anti vaxxers in the USA Angry

mathanxiety · 17/08/2019 18:40

My DCs have always done tornado drills and fire drills but no lockdown drills afaik.

The RC elementary school went on lockdown a few years ago when a local bank was held up and it wasn't known if the robbers were still in the neighbourhood. It was quite an ad hoc response, and the school has since developed a plan involving locked doors.

The high school regularly evacuates due to pranksters setting off fire alarms. One memorable parent teacher night the math teacher I had been waiting to see held his meetings out beside the tennis courts. He had grabbed his pile of printed out grade sheets before he left the building.

The HS has a central locking button that automatically locks all classroom doors in case of an armed assailant, and a vestibule area that you have to be buzzed through when you enter. Access points are subject to fire/safety rules as well as security plans. I have no doubt that a determined person could easily get into the HS but hand on heart I give that possibility no thought at all.

I would be far more concerned about what would become of my DCs, socially and academically, if they were to attend my old secondary school in Dublin. (The vast majority of my former classmates agree with me on that).

mathanxiety · 17/08/2019 18:50

soulrider East St Louis is very much the poster child for extreme urban decay and poverty in the US.
It would be hard to find a comparable community even within the US. Maybe Flint, MI, Englewood in Chicago, parts of the Bronx in NY, and little towns and surrounding areas in eastern Tennessee and Kentucky and in West Virginia.

OnlyaMan · 17/08/2019 18:52

I have visited Canada several times, once with my 10 year old son. We were blown away by the scenery, the woods, the whole place. We were really taken with it. I wished that I and my family lived there.
But...………...on the last occasion, we had to take a 2 hour bus trip to catch a ferry to get home. The bus crawled through half a dozen dusty, tiny, boring, remote "Nowherevilles". It occurred to me, that if we lived in Canada (or most of the USA), that kind of place might be our home.
Worth thinking about.

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:53

@whotheeff we've just passed a bill so your kid won't be able to go to school if they aren't fully vaccinated. Whilst I find this a little unsettling the amount of antivaxers has gotten ridiculous.

I found out after the fact that my fucking MIDWIVES hadn't been vaccinated for anything (even dtap!!!) and had young, unvaccinated kids at the time. AngryAngryAngryAngryAngry

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 18:54

@MarshaBradyo yes!! Boston is very like Melbourne!

whotheeff · 17/08/2019 18:56

@catofdoom we own a prenatal magazine and we have been trolled for advocating vaccinations!

catofdoom · 17/08/2019 19:03

@whotheeff I do support people's right to choose. We choose to not have chicken pox or some of the early ones until much later. But now he's school age he's all caught up.

But it's insane, our local Waldorf has a 70% unvaccinated rate. And when that happens something has to be done.

Anti vaxxers are quite often a bit batty in other areas where we live, I remember being ousted from a Mum group because ds had plastic toys. Hmm

bogginmacaroni · 17/08/2019 19:03

Nope. I live in a very traditional working class area in the South of England. All the kids are out on their bikes and scooters. Wee girls having 'shows' out in the street and all playing together. My youngest is 13 and out at the park with her pal on their bikes. It was the same on Scotland where we previously lived. My oldest was the same up there - making dens, running about collecting wood etc Playing at soldiers, Cops etc Making perfume with rose petals and a jam jar. All the kids played together. Less so now my youngest is a teenager but she still has picnics with her friends down the beach, although we take them down by car and pick them up as a bit away. Wouldn't like the guns in America.