To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

I’ve skim read the majority of the thread, and it really seems so simplistic to say that life in _ country is better than the UK. Poverty, wealth, education, healthcare, housing etc differs immensely depending on where you live in the UK. I do find the idea of something being typically ‘British’ quite irritating - I think it’s a very south-centric stereotype. Attitudes differ hugely across the UK and in Wales, Ireland and Scotland too!

And lumping Canada and the US together, as pointed out by many upthread, is ridiculous as they’re completely different, as are different states/provinces/cities/areas.

@catofdoom just cross your fingers then lol - my allegiance is with both. I find myself in the awful situation of having 2 'homes' yet equally foreign in both after 18 years stateside.

Being abroad for so long really is challenging - I really don't feel I belong anywhere or have roots now even though my family are in the UK.

As this thread shows all experiences are different. We loved Atlanta otherwise we wouldn't have stayed so long, but all 4 of us happier and more fulfilled living back in the UK for many different reasons. Trivial I know but I found the summer heat in Atlanta restrictive- it was too hot to do anything and rained as much as it does here in Leeds!

@whotheeff yes I didn't go back to the UK for two years and when I didn't it didn't feel like home. But nowhere else in the world can ever feel like 'home' because it's not where your roots are.

All immigrants I've spoken to feel the same way, it's a really unsettling and upsetting feeling. Although a lovely lady on my Instagram messaged me and said 'just look at it like you're lucky so feel so at home in two lovely places' and that helped a bit to think of it like that.

@whotheeff I thought about crossing my fingers but thought that might look pretty bad if I'm caught!

I'm 58 yrs old. I have lived all over the Uk, born and raised in a grotty Manchester suburb, lived and worked in affluent and shit parts of London, had my children and watched them grow up in Bath and Wiltshire.

I (or any member of my family) have never been the victim of a crime (not counting my abusive childhood). I've never been offered drugs nor have I ever been in the company of someone who takes them as far as I am aware.

My children had a lovely childhood, they played out, went to the parks, rode their bikes, went to umpteen clubs, joined various teams, had lots of local freinds to socialise with. They went to school alone from the age of 9, walking to primary and then bus to secondary. They have both got part time jobs from 16, they can drive, cook, look after themselves and are very independent. As are most of their very lovely (at my house anyway) friends. Their education at state schools was great.

One is currently traipsing around Europe and the other looking forward to a holiday abroad in a few weeks. They are both at university.

I'm pretty sure that somewhere another family in any country could describe the above. You can never know the ins and outs of other people's lives because, as we know from posts on here, what people get to see often isn't the whole picture. A snapshot cannot tell you what it's like to live there.

My sister has lived in the states for nearly 40yrs. She doesn't walk anywhere, she is in fear when there is someone she doesn't know out on her street, the young teens she looks after never walk anywhere because of the heat, the fear, the distances. They are micromanaged and under constant pressure to achieve. My other sisters live in deprived areas of the north of England. Their teenagers didn't go off the rails, all (13 of them) are kind and lovely people.

We can find good and bad anywhere. The teens I have met through my boys are lovely, kind, helpful, polite. One or two of them have had their "moments" but they are by no means the norm. Anyone who moves somewhere based on a 10 day holiday needs their head read!

I used to be heartbroken at the thought of renouncing other countries if I took US citizenship but renouncing Britain actually wouldn't make me feel that sad anymore,

You do not have to renounce British citizenship to take US citizenship. You can be a dual national. That's quite common there due to the global nature of many cities there - plenty of people have 3 passports or even more.

@timshelthechoice I understand that the US does not recognize people as 'dual citizens or nationals' like Canada does. It just doesn't ask you to hand in your old passport but as far as the govnt is concerned you are only a US citizen once you are naturalized.

My British childhood (90s-00s) was quite idyllic, I think.

Climbing on rocks/cliffs, rockpooling, racing my friend to see who could swim out and touch the moored boat first, going on rope swings put up on public land by teens, exploring WW2 bunkers, picking winkles to boil and eat on buttered bread, picking blackberries to make jam, cliff walks, climbing on hay bales etc. I try to do some of these with my kids now, the rest will be for when they're older and doing it with mates or alone as I did.

I know a lot of Canadians and would move there in a heartbeat. Have been there many times and it's idyllic for raising children. Children stay younger longer too.

I think the last place I would want to live is the US, no national health service, very few employment rights, inadequate maternity leave, few gun controls, having to drive everywhere. Capital punishment in some states etc Give me the UK any day despite its issues.

the secret competitiveness of school mothers

Is this exclusive to the UK? I'd have thought the tiger mum syndrome was quite prevalent in the US and obviously in the Far East.

And it's not secret, anything but.

@timshelthechoice

You do not have to renounce British citizenship to take US citizenship. You can be a dual national. That's quite common there due to the global nature of many cities there - plenty of people have 3 passports or even more.

Again

"When taking the Oath, the new citizen promises to fulfill the following duties:
• Support and defend the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the United States against its enemies.
• Give up allegiance to any other nation or sovereign, and renounce hereditary or noble titles, if any."

@Nonnymum how much extended time have you actually spent here?

As with any American thread, the ignorance, generalisation and xenophobia from many Brits is deafening.

One of the reasons why I'll never move back.

nokidshere...
I completely agree with everything you said; as I also said up thread, so much depends upon how you work with what you’ve got, wherever you live. It’s more about people than places.

Having to learn what to do in the event of school shooters - no thanks.

@reginafelangee we don't do that where I live. I'm sure the majority of the US actually doesn't.

I'd hate to live in Britain with its terrible knife crime, dangerous dogs, racism, terrible austerity government, football hooligans, littering problem and rampaging binge drinkers. Oh wait, am I generalising?

I'm a Brit living in a very multi-cultural offshore island (heavily US influenced but BOT) and agree from an outsider's point of view that the British culture is toxic at a certain level.
Very little is celebrated yet there is an undercurrent of desperation to keep up with the Jones's and a weird obsession with class.

The one thing I love about the school system in the US/Canada is that achievement is celebrated, not derided. It is cool to be smart in school, it is absolutely not cool to be the stoner drop out.

I've two young sons who I will continue to raise here where they can retain their innocence for far longer than they would in the UK. I also hope that the celebration of education here will continue to influence their direction so they will always consider learning and bettering themselves as the coolest thing, not the belittling of achievement.

I have British friends and family who have relocated to the US. It does seem idyllic and is as you describe.

On the downside they get hardly any annual leave. 10 days standard and 15 for those in good jobs. There is a myth that they get loads of bank holidays but it's only a few more days than we get.

"When taking the Oath, the new citizen promises to fulfill the following duties:
•Support and defend the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the United States against its enemies.
•Give up allegiance to any other nation or sovereign, and renounce hereditary or noble titles, if any.

@catofdoom
Allegiance is not the same as citizenship. It's a case of sympathies, loyalty, who comes first in your heart.
There are millions of dual nationals living, working, and in many cases enjoying security clearance in the US.

If you wish to join the armed forces and are a dual citizen you will be asked to formally renounce your other citizenship. DS investigated the armed forces medical school and this was one of its requirements - he would have had to formally renounce his right to Irish citizenship since he has never applied for his Irish passport/claimed Irish citizenship. A friend of his had to go to the Polish Consulate and sign a declaration formally renouncing his Polish citizenship and handing over his Polish/EU passport before the Navy would take him.

@mathanxiety I know!! I'm just talking about denouncing the UK in the Oath ceremony.

When we go back to the UK dh always finds it a big shock how negative Brits can be. There's just this weird feelings of spitefulness and grabbiness running through it now.

He used to want to move there, now he sees it as nice to visit but quite a toxic atmosphere.

DS gets teased and mocked quite a bit for being 'uncool' and 'backwards'. If playing in a creek from sun up to sun down, learning how to ski at two and sail at 4 and not being plastered in brand names is 'uncool' then I'll take it.

Kids here seem SO much younger than their peers in the UK. And I have to say it, happier. (Obviously I don't know ALL the kids in either country, just my observations from the many places I've been in both.)

For instance, there's a huge push here for kids to be outside all day. I've NEVER seen a kid on a screen out at dinner here. And we eat out at least once a week.

Oh come on these posts are ott compared to many people’s experience of living here.

@catofdoom I thought all state schools now have to have active shooter drills? My kids certainly did and we had regular lockdowns.