To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

Where I live I know a few parents at the school who live in housing areas where all the kids play outside, on their bikes as you describe (my set up is different but that’s my choice as I wanted really close to school and work) my kids school has a bus system so the kids go to school independently. We live near areas of natural beauty and I know a few parents with camper vans. And it’s a lovely school - albeit a bit of a concrete block, but it is a one campus primary and secondary so the transition will be smoother. So it seems I can live something like the life you describe in the US right here in the UK.

My sister lives over there and her family life isn’t as you describe, kids don’t play outside etc, although they have a pool which I’m very jealous of and weather is better - she complains it’s too hot though. I agree to some extent that our weather can restrict us in the UK.

I think your friend is in a great situation but that doesn’t mean that USA is always the best or vice versa. Perhaps it’s horses for courses.

Excuse me, Eaten by dinosaurs, all of Canada is not some members of the Saskatoon PD.

I have many First Nations family members and my ex-partner was Dene (& went to a residential course by choice as his community was too tiny to have a school for the older teens). There is racism but it’s not as bad as (it seems to be) in the US.

Many of the city schools have optional FN courses, bands are given funding for band members to attend uni (my ex partner did this and has had a professional job for decades now). There’s much improvement to be made, especially up North, but I’ve seen huge improvements within my lifetime.

Nodding here at the description of suburban lifestyle outside a big city provided by the OP.

I live in such a place. Millions of people do, just in this one greater metropolitan area.

I also share the OP's impression of UK teen malaise.

There are many misapprehensions about American life on this thread. I wonder where many of you get your information.

Depends where you live surely? We lived in rural England and my kids had that kind of childhood. But it is really really shit and boring for teenagers (hanging around bus shelters anyone?) so we lived in NYC when they were teenagers, I am sure they thanked us for that, and not bringing them to some Pennsylvania backwater.

I lived in PA for four years in a major city. The level of poverty and inequality was unreal. You never felt truly safe and always on guard. Re kids friends who had them put them in schools outside the city as the inner city ones weren’t great due to lack of funding. Kids in the burbs are not exposed to the inner city problems

whotheeff
many parents red shirt kids so you end up with sometimes a 3 year age range in one academic class year.
The age spread you find is not because of red shirting, and there is nothing at all wrong with mixing of ages in the one classroom.
It's because of schedule flexibility, graduation requirements (areas of study) and credit hour requirements.
You are almost 100% guaranteed in many high schools that you will be placed in a class of your choosing and at a level that is appropriate for you thanks to the capacity to place students regardless of age.
In larger schools, many levels of aptitude and ability can be catered for in multiple classes. You therefore tend to see a mix of ages in math, and also in non core courses such as art, comp sci, food science, psychology, econ, government, interior design, anatomy, mfl - and the list can go on and on and on because larger schools can offer an incredible number of courses.
In math, some students are starting off in HS at the level that some are finishing up at after their four year progression through levels. You can find freshmen entering HS taking BC calculus alongside seniors who started at advanced algebra and worked their way up, students who are taking advanced algebra in their senior year alongside freshmen, and dozens of other permutations and combinations.
You are less likely to find a huge age spread in English classes.

I was in a wealthy city and most chose to private school their kids which perpetuates a huge sense of privilege and it was all so parents could have bragging rights.
Unlike the UK private school system that is based on genuine grievance with the state system?
Unlike the UK private school system that does not perpetuate a huge sense of privilege, and the motives of parents choosing private schools are impeccable?
No bragging rights involved at all?
No fears among some UK parents of lumping their children with an insurmountable stigma by sending them to a comp?
There are badly run US public school districts, and there are private schools that offer a way out for poorer children. There are public school systems in some cities that are shunned because of out and out racism. A huge number of private schools are RC and attract parents wishing a RC foundation for their children. Everyone has their own reasons for sending children to a private school, in both places.

Thanks to the fact that in many municipalities the boards of public school districts are elected, there is always hope that direct involvement on the part of locals can result in real change. A nearby district whose coffers functioned as the personal and family piggy bank of the Mafia-connected mayor of one of the suburbs in the district now boasts a math and science academy as well as the original high school which had a terrible reputation, thanks to the activism of a determined group which gained a majority on the district board and pushed through reforms. The presence of the academy has boosted property prices in all of the suburbs in this particular district, with the new buyers less likely to be impressed by the guff of the Mafia types.

The public schools are HUGE and kids easily get 'lost' and neglected.
A very sweeping statement there.
I realise that my own personal observation of a 3,500 student school is by definition anecdotal, but there are many ways in which a school becomes a community and fosters a sense of belonging, inclusiveness, and a sense in students that they are valued as individuals.

My DCs attended a k-8 RC elementary of 450 students and progressed to the aforementioned 3,500-student HS, transitioning seamlessly. There are many students there who come from smaller schools, from home schooling, from all kinds of backgrounds (it's a hugely diverse area in every category in which diversity is measured).

Many high schools offer a dizzying variety of clubs, sports, and activities.

I agree with all those previous posters who have said that there is something 'weird' or a bit 'off' and unfriendly about British culture. I grew up here and moved abroad in my thirties. At that time, I wasn't particularly aware that it was different. It was when I moved back in my forties that I noticed it. A bitterness. A 'me first' attitude. You notice it everywhere - in supermarket car parks, in the secret competitiveness of school mothers, the benefits cheating that goes on, the tax dodging, the small-minded racism, the schadenfreude over other people's misfortunes, the parents who refuse to help their children 'because nobody ever helped us' etc etc . Disappointing really, when I'd been so proud to be British.

I can’t agree with these miserly posts about friendliness. London, of all places, is welcoming. Half my life here and I don’t recognise these other descriptions of meanness. Well maybe from the odd miserable few but for someone from another country it’s open not closed as a city.

I’ve only been in the US for a year and I can’t say it felt much different. About the same level of friendly acceptance.

But if you do see meanness everywhere you might be better off moving to a place you view as idyllic.

I think a lot of the good you describe also depends on where you live in the UK, and in the US.

^^

True, but a lot also depends on how you as a parent work with what you’ve got. I had to raise my three in Brent, not the most desirable borough in nw London, and they always had hobbies and activities to go to- and plenty of mates; didn’t get teased for playing tennis etc. There used to be a summer scheme running through the holidays... for little or no money they could (and did) do cooking, photography, football, trampolining etc.. but even without that, I wouldn’t have had them hanging around outside shops, intimidating people, or whatever.

I’m not saying it’s easy, but if you focus more on what you can do than what you can’t, you’ll get further and be happier.

@WilsonandJackie I live in a town in Worcestershire and we have first school, middle school and high school. By age 11 (year 6, in middle school) the girls are starting to wear make up, shave legs and freak out over their appearance etc and worry about what everyone else is thinking about them. Its still just as scary moving from middle school at 13 to high school, they still get picked on by the year 11s for being the babies of the school for the first month or so before they settle in to the new school.

@mathanxiety I'm talking about the age range in elementary and middle schools. In my experience it is absolutely from red shirting. We were encouraged to consider repeating K for our daughter just because she's a May birthday. We didn't. Most families do repeat the year when offered. Every child in Atlanta Public School system is entitled to repeat a year sometimes for absolutely no academic reason.

@mathanxiety I'm glad you're having a good experience. Most after school events and sporting activities in Atlanta requires a huge amount of fund raising by the students as the costs were astronomical even in the state schools.

My own experience with my children is that academically and socially they are happier, thriving and learning in more depth in the UK state school system. In their inner city school here in Leeds the community is diverse and mixes, unlike in Atlanta where it was still very segregated and 'each kept to their own'.

You see it on here all the time, 16/17/18 year old being told they are adults and should be fending for themselves now..
I think a lot of British people don't actually like teenagers.

I lived in the midwest for 4 years and worked with school kids from many different districts. There's a massive disparity between different areas and I can see that if you're friends/relatives live in their nice MC bubble it might seem like their lives are idyllic. But there's a flipside to that, a lot of segregation by race and wealth. I've worked with kids from East St Louis and the levels of poverty are heartbreaking, so far beyond anything I've ever experienced working with varied groups in England.

I'm shocked at the contrast between ds (nearly 6) and his peers in the UK when we come back. In my experience (and we aren't just in one spot in the UK when we come back, we travel around family and friends all over) the kids are way more tied to screens and have much less freedom.

Older kids are much more concerned about material things, clothes, tv shows etc.

I love Britain and it will always be 'where I'm from' but each time I go back I find more of a hard, selfish, mean streak running through the country and less proud to be British.

I used to be heartbroken at the thought of renouncing other countries if I took US citizenship but renouncing Britain actually wouldn't make me feel that sad anymore, it's becoming so wrapped up in red tapes, rules, petty meanness and one-up-man-ship I'm thankful everyday we chose to stay in the States with DS.

I feel SO much safer here.

I always thought we'd move back eventually, hand on my heart I wouldn't move back if you bought me a mansion now.

I used to be heartbroken at the thought of renouncing other countries if I took US citizenship...

So don't renounce? It's not a requirement.

Yeah - lovely and flexible with kids carrying guns and shooting up people in school. You are naive and ignorant to thing all schools/neighbourhoods in America is as great as the one you saw.

My daughter cycles to school and she goes over to the neighbours to play, there is communal garden where In the summer the residents have a big summer party with bouncy castles and we share all sorts of home made food. My neighbours daughter babysits. 🤷🏻‍♀️

catofdoom

I renounced, like you every time I go back to the UK it gets worse. I no longer consider myself British, it was nothing to be proud of.

I come from Australia. I would say that Britain is the best place in the world to be wealthy. But it’s very difficult to get wealthy. If our income dropped I would just move elsewhere. The only way you can live nicely in the uk is of you earn enough for private education/healthcare and a house in an expensive conservation area/ small village/middle of no where where there is no social housing. The quality of what you can buy here is top notch but the quality of services for those who can’t pay is dismal and it’s difficult to be able to afford. In contrast where I grew up housing in a nice suburb is reasonably affordable (yourintrebd to get social housing in nice areas unless it’s occupied by very old people in a sort of retirement community set up). Private schools are much more affordable (more of a range inpricing levels) and private healthcare is easier to access (due to a mostly metropolitan population). State healthcare is perfectly adequate. Not as good as private but I wouldn’t be worried about being poor and reliant on statehwakthcare in Australia the way I would be of being reliant on the NHS. It’s also much easier to be successful there. Here there are a lot of barriers for people who don’t look and act a certain way which is quite absurd really.

@jesuschristwtf

Yeah - lovely and flexible with kids carrying guns and shooting up people in school. You are naive and ignorant to thing all schools/neighbourhoods in America is as great as the one you saw.

Um, mine is. And others on this thread LIVE in places in the States that are too.

I don't even know where my front door key is. I haven't locked it in the 7 years I've lived here. Even when I've gone abroad.

Nobody take their keys out of their ignitions here.

We haven't had a violent crime here in over 10 years.

Don't judge a country 40 times the size of the UK on a couple of tv programs and what makes the news.

@gwenneh

So don't renounce? It's not a requirement.

The Oath of Allegiance to the United States is a sworn declaration that every citizenship applicant must recite during a formal ceremony in order to become a naturalized American citizen. The Oath ceremony is a tradition dating back to the 18th century.
When taking the Oath, the new citizen promises to fulfill the following duties:
• Support and defend the U.S. Constitution and the laws of the United States against its enemies.
• Give up allegiance to any other nation or sovereign, and renounce hereditary or noble titles, if any.
• Provide military or civilian service when called upon by the government to do so.
Attending the Oath of Allegiance ceremony is mandatory as the final step of the naturalization process. You must satisfy this requirement of U.S. citizenship in order to naturalize and become a U.S. citizen.

@catofdoom all 4 of us retain both passports. You only 'renounce' loyalty to other countries in the citizenship swearing in ceremony.

@whotheeff yes I'm aware of that. It was the renouncing in the ceremony I was talking about.

I grew up in a place where doors were left unlocked and keys in ignition. Still downsides. And most young people leave in late teens early 20s.