To think you should at least try and look presentable at work?

[92AP]

For context, I work for a very large company in a building that does a lot of different 'back office' functions. We have recently moved buildings so I now work on a new floor which we share with two other teams. I have seen the individual in question around the old place but now see her every day as we work on teams next to eachother.

Our office dress code is smart casual. Most wear nice jeans and tops/jumpers or floaty dresses. Everyone adhears to this as its not very strict and as long as we look decent then theres not an issue.

The woman in question comes to work every day in scruffy leggings and baggy tshirts that are visably dirty. Her hair long is alway greasy and matted beyond belief, honestly mine looks better when I have just woken up after a night of heavy drinking. It is so matted in places some days it looks as though its been back combed and then twisted up. It is also dyed pink on the ends, which does not bother me at all, but surely shows some kind of hair care takes place at some point to upkeep this?

I understand some people may have disabilities that mean they cannot look after themselves as much as others, but surely if you are capable of doing an admin job in an office, you are capable of at least brushing your hair?

AIBU to think if you are coming to work you should at least make a small effort to look like you care about yourself/your job?

Only on Mumsnet...where you’re a clatty cow if you don’t wash your sheets and towels every day but it’s perfectly ok to go to work in filthy clothes 🙄.

It's an odd place MN.

YANBU.

I'd expect a basic level of dressing in an office environment.

But I'm probably a judgemental bitch as well.

I’d say there’s a middle ground there somewhere gingersausage

No eye-rolling necessary.

I used to work with someone like this years ago and everyone used to talk about them. It turned out years later when she was divorcing that she was being financially abused and couldn't use the washing machine- have access to food in the house when he wasn't there. She wasn't allowed access to the bank account so couldn't buy herself any new work clothes, shoes or get a haircut. You really have no idea what is going on so just leave her alone and get on with your work.

Maybe she’s homeless and can’t wash herself or clothes? It’s fine to wonder what’s going on. It’s not fine to assume she isn’t making an effort- maybe she’s sleeping on the streets or in a car? You don’t know what’s going on and as you aren’t her line manager it isn’t for you to find out.

If you are genuinely concerned about her well being speak to her line manager, who probably already knows what’s going on anyway tbh if she is coming in on dirty clothes and unwashed.

If she's doing her work properly and doesn't smell what does it matter how she looks in what you describe as "a back office"?

Presumably she's not meeting people, other than those with whom she works, face to face.

Personally, I would adhere to the "dress code" (but why is there one for a "back office"? Other than not coming in in fancy dress or something mad or very inappropriate). However, I wouldn't worry about what other people wore.
Unless there was a drastic change in their appearance which might make me wonder if they had had an event in their lives causing it.

This sort of judging by appearance when it really doesn't matter sounds pointless.
And if it does matter then, as others have said, it's up to her line manager to deal with it, not you.

So, if you're here because
Thats the point of this thread isn't it? To get others opinions on if you are right or not?
then I, for one, think you're wrong.
And, without getting obsessional and actually counting posts, I get the impression the majority of those replying think you are too.

Thank you for all your input guys, I will try and be less judgemental in future.

You're welcome. Also, that's good to hear.

Aside:
I'm still wondering what you'd have done if "others" had found you "right"?
Would that have been carte blanche to go and tell this co-worker that her appearance is inappropriate? Or to tell her line-manager that MN posters think the LM should take the matter in hand? Or just carrying on judging her (and maybe gossiping about her either here and/or at work)?

I went through a period at work where I looked unkempt. I still showered and did my hair but my clothes would be dirty with food and unwashed. I was going through a stage of depression and looking back I wonder why no one at work asked me what was going on. I would have been devastated if I’d found a thread or knew my colleagues were talking about how I looked.

I wonder how many of the defensive posters go to work in dirty stained clothes and matted hair.

Workplace cultures do influence how people dress so I recognise she might stand out, even to someone who does not work directly with her. However, you say she is just one person out of 200 so it is not really that improbable, outside customer facing organisations or places where there is a very strict dress code.

It would be wrong to assume her appearance affected her performance. It sounds as if you work in the sort of place where a manager would be concerned if someone did have depression or was living in circumstances where washing her clothes was very difficult. Next time you see her, try smiling or exchanging a hello. You might eventually find out she is a complete whizz with spreadsheets or has the most amazing telephone manner or lots of other skills that make her a vital member of staff.

I don’t know why you’re getting grief OP. She needs to keep a basic level of hygiene!

I understand your concern and think there is probably more to it (depression etc). I have severe MH issues following a sudden bereavement and no longer wear make up/ wash my hair daily/ take risks with what i wear to work.....not to the extent you describe but still! At some point I hope I will care about these things and make an effort again.
I hope the line manager is able to have a quiet word/ check everything is ok.
I also think most places have a dress code so she should be told if she is not dressing appropriately (I’ve had to have these conversations with newbies in my team before. Not nice but had to be done).

Surely in a situation where one person is “obsessing” about another’s appearance, the issue of MH should be questioned in at least more than that one?

I expect I will he told there is no obsession just someone expressing an opinion and looking for others. But well, it’s a posting on MN and juicy enough to get into the DM if we play our cards right.

We can all form an opinion on anything but we have to accept that there are limits to our influence on things. That’s healthy thinking. To just notice, maybe wonder and then put our grey cells to more productive activities than this.

TatianaLarina Most of the “defensive” posters aren’t saying it’s necessarily completely OK to come in with dirty clothes and matted hair. In fact, a lot of us are saying it’s so unusual that there may be an underlying mental/physical health reason for it and to try having a bit of compassion for someone who may be having a tough time.

To which the OP has said effectively “we get enough support, so she just needs to try harder”

Your mistake is to make it all about you. It isn't hard for you, so it can't be hard? Are you always so lacking in empathy?

I used to work at the criminal bar OP. Trust me, matted hair and dirty clothes were the least of it.
Get a sense of proportion. It’s ok for other people not to place importance on the same things you do. It really is.

I have disabilities and would not venture out of house unless basic make up on, hair tidy ( it can be difficult) and smartly dressed. This is my normal look, despite that it not easy .
I lost benefits because i was clean, neat and tidy.

Maybe that’s just the look she’s going for.

If it doesn't impact on her work and she isn't in a customer facing role then I think you are being massively unreasonable. What she looks like has no bearing on your work so why bother thinking about it? I work in healthcare, a lot of women I work with wear a full face of makeup every day, I keep it light. Do I judge them for it,no and I would hope they wouldn't.

Maybe reach out to her if it bothers you so much? She might be depressed or just a dirty bugger but it really is no business of yours.

I mists be a bitch too OP, it wouldn't go down well in my office either. I imagine all employees are expected to stick to each rule in the handbook so why it's okay to ignore the dress code I don't know 🤷🏻‍♀️

If she is struggling then management should be picking up on it and as part of that KINDLY reminding them of the dress code. If you're well enough to work that includes being clean and semi presentable.

Having never had coloured bits in my hair at least I know this isn't about me! Most of the time I look presentable if not smart, but have had periods when that hasn't happened - most recently when an injury led to me putting on weight, so had limited clothes to pick from and as soon as you hit size 18-20 it's much harder to find clothes to buy. My priority is getting autistic kids to school on time so sometimes that means getting them out the door and dressed and I'll worry about grooming later. Also I can't lift my hands to the top of my head until I've done physio exercises and painkillers have kicked in, so hair brushing happens once I get to work - except when stuff kicks off immediately and I'm getting on with that instead, seeing as I can reach a keyboard just fine.

I know there's judgement - the Director who judged all women who didn't wear heels was quite special - but my manager is happy with the work I do, when and how I do it, and points out I wouldn't be easy to replace. And sometimes suggests a few minutes to 'get ready' before meeting front office types.

If you're this woman's manager, then manage. If you're concerned, have a word with her or her manager. Otherwise, you can take it as a given she's good enough at her job that management want to keep her.

TatianaLarina

I wonder how many of the defensive posters go to work in dirty stained clothes and matted hair.

I probably count as a "defensive poster". However, I was defending the person about whose appearance questions have been raised, not myself.

In my job (HCP with face to face contact with people seeking help), it would be a real problem to turn up with knots the size of "grapefruits" (really OP? I think I've only enough hair for 2 to 3 Jaffas myself) and dirty and/or very informal clothing.

The people I meet need to have a great deal of trust in me, know that I respect them and feel that I am in control of my own life (so am able to give full attention to theirs). If I haven't taken the trouble to dress appropriately they may well judge me on that, and rightly. Often, they have nothing but my appearance and manner to go on initially.

But they don't know me like my colleagues do. I certainly wouldn't take that much trouble just to eg go to work in a lab where people other than my colleagues would meet me and, hopefully (regardless of how I looked) would just trust me to get on with the job in hand.

A lot of companies like OP’s that only deal with back office roles don’t really care about dress code. It’s a deliberate move to attract more young creatives. I know a few small investment banks who tried this too and some of the most senior and most talented people were often coming into work in sweaty gym stained kit / ripped jeans or leggings etc.

where NO people other than my colleagues...

You're affronted because a woman dares to reject societal expectations of female appearance. I bet you wouldn't be so put out by this if it were a man turning up in crumpled shirts/unshaven.

You sound very shallow OP... you'll hopefully grow out of that in your 30's.