To ask: why wouldn’t you take your husband’s surname?

[Josephinaphia]

Not looking for a row here - just genuinely interested in people’s reasoning behind not changing their surname upon marriage.
I am married and although I have a very unique maiden name which I love, I took my husband’s surname when we married. It was strange at first and a little sad, but now it is my name and part of my identity, as my original name was. We have 2 DDs who both have the surname too.
My questions are:
If you kept your name, what were your reasons? (e.g. you’d already made a name for yourself in your profession)
If it is a feminist issue of ‘ownership’ as some people seem to suggest, why is it any better to be ‘owned’ by your dad, to be known by your dad’s surname?
Is it not complicated having a different surname to your children, does it not get annoying when people assume you are Mrs DH’s surname anyway?
Do your children question why you have a different name?
With the whole double-barelling thing, again is this a feminist issue? To both be equal? But then what is the long-term plan? When your DC get married will they add their surname to their spouse’s surname and potentially have a quadruple-barrel name? And what of the generation after that?
I have a really lovely dad who treats my mum incredibly well and my husband is the same to me, so I’ve never really had a complex about men being superior or me being inferior and just never really saw the issue with having a shared marital, family name - but it seems so common now for women to want to keep their maiden name (their dad’s name) in some capacity and I guess I’m just curious as to why. As far as I can see, taking your husband’s name is the sensible way to do it if you’re going to have family. Double-barrelling in particular is surely just causing problems for your children further down the line?

The OP says nothing about “women in Britain.”

Even if she did say that. Women in Britain vary enormously (obviously).

It’s very odd that because I slightly disagree with you, or have a slightly different perspective, you interpret that as me not posting “in good faith,”

I’m telling you how I felt. My maiden name always felt very patriarchal due to my personal background. That is my experience. It’s as real as yours. ,Am I not allowed to feel like that? Or should I not have changed my name because most women in DH’s culture don’t? How should I feel about that? The way we approach these questions will be different to other people for a whole myriad of reasons., Life is far too complex and inconsistent for blanket statements about what women “should” or “shouldn’t” do. I find this very tiring tbh.

I give up. You win. You’re right. I’m wrong. Name changing on marriage is a sign of true women’s liberation. How could I have thought any different?

Or just respect that women can make their own choices?

@Rethymon, precisely. Feminism has lost its way when it becomes as prescriptive as patriarchy.

“Feminism has lost its way when it becomes as prescriptive as patriarchy.”
You didn’t respond to my point that this does not appear to be a completely free choice for many women.

It’s completely a free choice. If people allow themselves to be influenced by others, that’s their choice too.

Feminism has lost its way when it becomes as prescriptive as patriarchy.

But it's not being proscriptive - it's just saying that doing nothing is a more feminist act [in a society where women are expected to change their name upon marriage and men aren't] than actively renaming yourself to your husband's name.

It's not saying anything about changing your name at other points in time, it's not saying you can't do it if you don't want to, it's just saying that following this patriarchal norm, isn't a feminist decision.

What's with people being unable to accept a little bit of dissent without throwing everything connected out along with it? Is this like cancel culture? One step wrong and you're entirely wrong?

Of course it’s not a completely free choice. That goes without saying. There’s no “you’re right, Im wrong” about it. That is precisely my point.

When I came to change my name to DH’s, I was fully aware of the patriarchal significance. Yet, unlike other people on here, I felt as if that ship had already sailed, so to speak, because of how I also felt about my maiden name. So the decision for me wasn’t as clear cut as it might be for some people..

Yes, I could have chosen a whole new name, but I didn’t.

Also I think the line on here, “You can be a feminist, but still make non-feminist choices” is largely a cop-out. Ultimately women will do what they want and in most cases, this will fall somewhere between the kind of high-handed feminism espoused on here and “the patriarchy”.

Feminism isn't allowed facts, apparently.

“It’s completely a free choice. If people allow themselves to be influenced by others, that’s their choice too.”
So all the women posting on here about their future husbands not liking it, or their future father in laws not liking it-they all have a completely free choice too, do they?

“You can be a feminist, but still make non-feminist choices” is largely a cop-out

Or being realistic.

I'd prefer my kids ate home cooked food, but DS2 had beans on toast for lunch. It's not a cop out to recognise that no-one's perfect!

in most cases, this will fall somewhere between the kind of high-handed feminism espoused on here and “the patriarchy”.

I think you're muddling up discussion of feminism, with day to day life - we can talk about ideals, but we still live in a patriarchal world. Self-critical examination of our own decisions isn't being high-handed, it's just thinking about what we're doing and why

My surname is not my dad's - it's my mum's which I'm very grateful for. I wouldn't change on marriage.

@BertrandRussell, of course it’s still a free choice, they don’t have to give in to bullying by people who “don’t like it”, do they? My husband wasn’t keen. Tough.

“@BertrandRussell, of course it’s still a free choice, they don’t have to give in to bullying by people who “don’t like it”, do they? ”
Wow. OK. I wish I lived in your world where nobody is ever put in a position where they do something against their will, because all they have to do is not do it!

Yes, it’s a nice place to be.

buttery - I agree with you, And this - “ Self-critical examination of our own decisions isn't being high-handed, it's just thinking about what we're doing and why”.

It is entirely possible to think critically about “patriarchal factors”, yet still conclude that there are some aspects or manifestations of it that you still wish to adhere to.

I was fully aware of the significance of being “given away” at my wedding. I still wanted to do it though. I own that as my choice, even though I’m aware I didn’t make that choice “in a vacuum” (to use the MN phrase ). I’m aware it’s not feminist. But the “feminist” choice there was less appealing.

Similarly, to other wedding traditions such as wearing a white dress. I’m fully able to critically analyse the significance of that, just as much as somebody who would reject that tradition. I just “critically analysed” it and decided that I wanted to do it anyway.

So I think “feminism” does have to factor in that patriarchy is something that, in some of its aspects, some women might wish to “collude” with. “Critical analysis” does not lead all women to the same conclusions - not all the time. Just because some women do change their names in marriage, doesn’t mean that they are dim or somehow need enlightenment.

I added DH’s name on to the end of my name (double-barrelled without a hyphen, essentially). I’ve never much liked my maiden name, and had every intention of changing to DH’s easily spelled and pronounceable surname, but when it came to the crunch, it was just too bound up with my identity to ditch entirely.

It’s a bit like Brexit. I often feel the need to tell Briexiteers that they’re not thinking rationally or critically and I can get very frustrated. But then, you realise that people largely voted instinctively anyway, so what you can do?

@Rethymnon

It is entirely possible to think critically about “patriarchal factors”, yet still conclude that there are some aspects or manifestations of it that you still wish to adhere to.

So all that bollocks about other cultures, and how changing your name might go against sexist traditions in other countries, was just a complete diversion, wasn't it?

The reality is that after 'critically thinking' about patriarchy and marriage, you decided to choose every single manifestation of it for your own marriage: the name changing, the white dress, being given away, et cetera.

So it's totally irrelevant that your friend from a different country has a different tradition that makes changing your name somehow a feminist option, because you opted for every patriarchal aspect of marriage - not just the name changing.

That's all fine. That's all your choice. But what I don't understand is why you're trying to argue that black is white, by trying to distort the reality so much that you can somehow claim that all of these (completely unnecessary) manifestations of patriarchal tradition are anything else.

You don't have to make feminist choices. You (unlike other posters here who have been coerced or heavily pressured) were free to choose whatever you wanted to, and you made a series of non-feminist choices.

That's your prerogative. But don't try to pretend that they are anything but non-feminist.

What are you so angry about?

I have made my own choices for my own reasons - partly in response to cultural aspects, partly in response to personal aspects. Like anyone else really I have friends who have made choices for their reasons. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive you know?

Of course women sometimes want to collude with patriarchy. That's a given. Choosing the more patriarchal naming option, which in the UK would be changing your own name for that of a man, is only one of the ways that happens. And certainly some women do it through pressure, not thinking or not knowing, but for others it's an active choice. Some of them even manage to acknowledge that they made the more patriarchal choice too.

Thankyou Mrs Levinson and I do acknowledge that. As I said yesterday, I completely own my choices. I am simply trying to put into words why and how I might have come to make those choices because I think it’s personal to everyone.. There was a time in my life when I did see everything, including feminism, as very black and white. I no longer do.

Yes, the reasons why women make decisions that are objectively more or less patriarchal than others are often complex. Really it's no different than anything else in that respect. Motivations may vary.

@Rethymnon What are you so angry about?

You know, you have literally no idea what my emotions are, who I am, or how I feel right now (or why). It's a really pointless tactic to try to attack someone personally for how you think they feel, rather than engaging with the points they're making.

I have made my own choices for my own reasons - partly in response to cultural aspects, partly in response to personal aspects. Like anyone else really confused I have friends who have made choices for their reasons. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive you know?

The point is that you posted about 15 times trying to make some tangential, irrelevant point about how, in other cultures, it's not always expected that women change their name and that therefore you didn't make a non-feminist choice.

It was all nonsense because you've actively embraced making choices that collude with patriarchy, loads of them, not just changing your name. So why waste your time making a spurious argument (that never made any sense) trying to deny the reality of this?

For what it's worth, every woman who does have the intelligence & the freedom of action to make whatever choices she wants, but who chooses to collude with and perpetuate the patriarchy, makes it more difficult for those women who aren't so lucky.

Because I have a perfectly good name of my own which has served its purpose for the past 40 years