To think that there is a worrying rise of The Pushy Parent?

[ShutTheDough]

I visited my friend last week who has moved to Cambridge and happened to meet some of her friends. My friend is very down to earth and I would say has a very relaxed style of parenting. I was quite surprised about how much they invested in their children. Not saying that's a bad thing obviously but it all seemed like alot of pressure on the children. One of them already had the careers set out for their DC.
It just seemed all a bit intense tbh.

So while my daughter had a good state education and has recently graudated from an excellent UK university, the future isn't looking great at the moment for UK education generally. (I don't think a dash of extra-curricular Mandarin is going to solve this one.)

More broadly a lot of industries are starting to relocate. So I believe that by ensuring that whatever happens, my daughter can work in the EU27 countries, I've done something that may turn out to be extremely useful.

As a dual EU/ US citizen who has lived in 2 EU countries, I hope that your daughter has more than a dash of at least 1 EU language. I can assure you that people far and beyond the EU particularly send their children to U.K. universities (were we not schedule to move in future, we would send ours to one too, preferably a top one where they can continue utilising their dashes of Mandarin and French in an international tolerant environment (I am a pushy parent). It is very interesting that as a child of refugee parents, you consider the standards in the UK to be inadequate based on a political environment that is bound to change like any other.

We have a few at school who are very very pushy - to the point there are pages and pages written in every comment box in reading diaries and the kids are scheduled to within an inch of their lives with tennis, piano, French, Kumon, drama lessons. There's very much an aura of "I'm a better parent than you" because they've got the ability to throw their chequebook at parenting.

Thing is it's not really working academically - the kids in question are becoming very very anxious, and while they started ahead of their peers - things have evened off as they've dropped back when the curriculum is really looking toward deep understanding of subjects which is a lot harder to tutor for.

Mine do a few activities (we've cut back a bit recently) in terms of dancing, swimming that they do for sheer enjoyment of it - they go to a very laid back dance school where they don't do exams or competitions - it's just dancing for pleasure and learning how to do it (the teacher is amazing - total candidate for World's Most Lovely Lady) and Beavers which they get a lot out of - but I try to make sure they've got a lot of unstructured time as well to learn how to deal with that themselves.

I'm very supportive of school and education - and I'll happily go over something from school if they're fretting about it at home that they didn't understand it (I'm thankfully able to do that in the same manner school have taught it so it's consistent as well because of my own background) and make sure that homework is done, reading is heard most of the nights of the week and they have a very rich home environment in terms of good quality books, games and toys - but while both of my kids are naturally very intelligent - one is also naturally very anxious and I focus more on trying to teach her tools to cope with her anxiety and NOT stressing the academic stuff; and the other has severe dyspraxia and struggles desperately with motor skills and getting what she knows down on paper - so with her I focus on helping her with strategies to get around that (and sneaking in games that support her OT's recommendations) - my priority is more to turn them out happy, emotionally OK, and nice people than chasing a string of As in exams.

I've been told off by my eldest. Apparently I am insufficiently pushy, and this has potentially negatively impacted on her academic success. A mother's place is in the wrong. . . sigh. . .

Ah well have learnt a new phrase today ‘ building cultural capital ‘ - must try that out on my teen later to give her something to ponder whilst she awaits A level results . Will be interesting to see / hear her response .
My take would be there’s a fine line , no doubt varying with the kid , between being pushy and encouraging to do / try new things . Certainly i remember smiling at one mother from kids primary school who wondered why her child who had an after school activity every day including Saturdays fully packed and church on Sunday was ‘ too tired to do her homework ‘ - I simply said ‘ bloody hell if I did all your DD does I’d be too tired too ‘ . Some kids are fine doing lots of things , others need a metaphorical kick up the butt but let’s not feel that sometimes doing nothing / being bored and creating your own way of spending some time is valuable too .

host Given you are a child of grandparents that were refugees, and must have suffered huge displacement, surely you must realise how phenomenally lucky we are in the UK more than most. It is easy to run everything down. In comparison to other countries the UK is less racist than most. If you travel anywhere, including to many parts of europe, not to mention the wide world it is instantly obvious that we are extremely privileged.

I am sorry you have lost sight of how fortunate you and your children are. The grass is always greener, that is until you live there and realise it is often just an illusion.

Raise children with a sense of pride in their country, raise children with a feeling of belonging, caring for their part of the world, and to be proud of who they are. Raise children with some sense of gratitude for everything they have. Endless parental whinging will produce entitled teens that are ungrateful, unemployable and saddled with the same prejudice as you.

brot I suppose that Brexit was something that couldn't reasonably have been foreseen. (David Cameron doing calcuations on the back of an envelope, and reckoning he could sort out those mad Brexiteers via a quick referendum.)

It would be good if schools in the UK now were better in terms of language teaching.

I think if I had the wisdom of hindsight a) my mother would have taught me her native tongue and b) taken that language at school. But it was before we joined what was then the Common Market and being bilingual was then thought to be bad for children. Her concern was that she - and her children - would be properly English. And the language teaching at my school was dreadful. Language teaching just was in the 1970s. And yes, if I'd known that things would pan out as they would I'd have made strenuous efforts to learn my mother's language as an adult,

But this has all blown up in the last 2 or 3 years. At least knowing one Romance language to a reasonably high level and picking up some of another language on her travels has meant that my daughter has some adaptability.

(My grandmother started to study English, which she'd have been taught at school once she realised it would be essential to leave her native country, learned more through immersion on arrival - and found professional work here reasonably quickly.)

Hope that helps to explain my situation.

I've been told off by my eldest. Apparently I am insufficiently pushy, and this has potentially negatively impacted on her academic success. A mother's place is in the wrong. . . sigh. . .

Such a handy excuse!!! why didn't I think of that when I failed one of my a levels due to excessive drinking and partying!

As others have said, it's a balance. I was shocked that a friend recently allowed her daughter to give up music lessons after 2 efforts (after buying her an instrument as well!) because the girl, who is nine, didn't volunteer to practice for the first week. I don't really think any kid volunteers to practice - they might volunteer to play for half an hour, but practising is different and no-one enjoys it if it's done properly! It's one of those 'bit of pain, lots of gain' things. (There was a great Listening Service on this recently)

Also recently saw a parent having a massive go at a child for getting a B+ instead of an A, which seemed far too far the other way.

Unfortunately I've had to become pushy with my 6 year old. He finished the school year massively behind in everything, so I've had to invest in a ream of educational material and have been tutoring him this summer. I've managed to get him almost to the level he needs to be in just a few weeks, but without that "pushyness" he;d still be horrendously behind. He's not a stupid child, no SEN etc, just hates school and in a class of 30 no one can expect their child to get special individual attention in class so if I have to do it so be it, if it means he doesn't lag behind. No regrets.

Something I would like to mention here is that there is quite a difference between British and American top universities (the poster above whose kisd do a million EC activities mentioned "Ivy League" universities).

Top American universities are obsessed with (often very expensive) extra curriculars. British ones, not really. They like people who have a huge passion for their subject, and perhaps do "something" outside school. I went to a top British university and did very little in the way of EC stuff.

Such a handy excuse!!! grin why didn't I think of that when I failed one of my a levels due to excessive drinking and partying!

LOL. She's excelling. But she could have excelled more, Mother. . . (Most of her friends are Asian, she was the token White Asian, apparently. . .)

I don’t think that’s at all pushy YouJustDoYou, that’s just being a wonderful parent. It’s so sad not all kids have a parent who will do that for them (or is capable of doing so). You sound great.

Btw I don’t think ‘pushy’ is a bad thing even though the term has negative connotations so I feel a bit weird using it here... but you know what I mean. Nobody could accuse you of going too far pushing him because you’re taking the time and energy to help him get up to speed. He’s a very lucky child.

Host. I am a bit confused! You now seem to be promoting learning languages but you have consistently negatively dragged the fact that I send my children to extra language classes in previous posts? You also stated that employment prospects are nil or rapidly declining in the U.K. and are happy that your daughter has dual nationality. However, as you pointed out to me, extra-curricular activities, a plan etc do not guarantee anything, something I totally agreed with and pointed out that they open an avenue to learn numerous things, build character and an interest in things. The same can be said about holding dual nationality and moving to an EU country with an aim of gaining employment. There is no guarantee that dual-citizenship and a knowledge of language, a move of U.K. business etc will ensure that your daughter will find employment. If it were that easy, there would be no unemployment in mainland Europe and I can assure you, unemployment is ripe in EU, especially southern and Eastern Europe. Where it is readily available especially for English speakers such as in Brussels, the competition is stiff! It is much easier to gain employment in the U.K. even for people who are less educated and are not fluent in English than it is mainland Europe.

I can't speak for US universities (and no way could we afford for ds to go to one unless he got a sports scholarship) but I am content that he has done enough outside academics to get a good university place.

You don't need to be rushing around from club to club. 2 or 3 a week is fine. I guess if you have more than one child, that will be rushing around, but I mean not more than 2/3 per child. And you can reduce the pressure if you do some activities in the holidays. For example, ds did mainly term-time swimming lessons, but our local leisure centre did and still does, swimming courses in the holidays. DS also did kayaking in the holidays. It doesn't matter what a child does, it just adds to their social capital and gets them away from their mobile phones.

I think it is essential that the British education system sorts out its appalling language learning though. Everyone should be leaving school with a decent knowledge of a second language (third in Wales I guess).

It is much easier to gain employment in the U.K. even for people who are less educated and are not fluent in English than it is mainland Europe

Not for much longer...

My DC who are currently on the Xbox think I am being pushy when I occasionally ask them if they have done their homework. I think they would tell me to have a lie down if I ever started talking about wanting to improve their ‘cultural capital

I think there is a difference between doing activities and doing them pushily. A lot of sporty things I consider for my DS are essentially to replace the lack of social contact he has/running about that he would have had as a child 20 years ago - he'd have been out on the street playing wall ball with neighbours for hours, swimming in the local river etc. Now all of that has disappeared. Maybe formalised clubs and activities have taken their place.

I'm maybe viewed as neglectful by some but tough. My 8 year old goes to an average school which really promotes kindness, community, self esteem etc as equally important as academic success or winning medals in 10 extra curricular activities. He does cubs and swimming after school and that's enough in terms of time and my budget.

Okay Brot let me explain.... Or try to.

I suppose that I am doubtful about the value of some language teaching. Teaching as a little add-on extra that will sound good on an application to study politics. (When UK admissions tutors are saying that the Mandarin classes aren't what they're looking at. I can see for politics courses looking at China it would be invaluable, but many in the UK have a largely European/US focus)

I do very much support children being brought up bilingual and really wish that there was better language teaching embedded in the UK from primary level. Unfortunately this is not the case and that at GCSE, A-level and at universities lanaguage courses are on the decline.

I am under no illusion that an A-Level in one European lanaguage is an open door to a glittering international career. I am aware that there is a huge difference in the prosperity of various EU countries.

However, I genuinely believe that the UK is drifting very close to a catastrophe. For a young person to remain a European citizen and to have some language skills to A-level means they have more chances than someone who has no EU citizenship, little or no further education and has only scraped a bare pass at GCSE level

I think for my grandparents what ultimately counted was not just the qualifications they had in their native country - though these were significant - but their foresight and hard work and determination to start all over again when it became necessary.

Don’t know - I don’t think I’m pushy but others might. My dd does drama, tennis, ballet and boxing, she studies French and mandarin and will take up fencing in a few years. My son who is 3 will start rugby at 5. I like that she does clubs instead of tv/iPad (she’s not confident in how to use either), my parent my parents didn’t care about my studies/life.

mbosnz

Yes if only you had spent less time pureeing the local organic pears and singing to her, and sent her to kumon from six months old instead, with a timetable for enrichment allowing for four hours sleep per night, she would have been in a FAR better position than the nine A** stars she achieved
We too are the tokens, and its not pretty at exam time when some of the dc cry because they only got 99% in physics.

Host: I suppose that I am doubtful about the value of some language teaching. Teaching as a little add-on extra that will sound good on an application to study politics. (When UK admissions tutors are saying that the Mandarin classes aren't what they're looking at. I can see for politics courses looking at China it would be invaluable, but many in the UK have a largely European/US focus)
I clearly pointed out from the start that we are aiming for US universities because we are moving there in the near future. I went to a US university myself. I know what is asked for (which was much less when I studied), believe it or not it is comparable to a detailed cv not only focused on academics but also EC. Another thing is that, learning anything is not for the sole purpose of gaining employment (I learned numerous things when growing up because my parents were pushy, some like the piano, cello and swimming I still play/do and enjoy, and they have never offered me employment nor were they intended to). Not everything is learned for the purposes of attaining greater wealth. Opportunity and wealth are very two different things in my book.

However, I genuinely believe that the UK is drifting very close to a catastrophe. For a young person to remain a European citizen and to have some language skills to A-level means they have more chances than someone who has no EU citizenship, little or no further education and has only scraped a bare pass at GCSE level

I agree, essentially the dual citizenship and language have created an opportunity for your daughter that others may not have. So who is to say that some day, the languages my children are learning will not create an opportunity for them? I personally think there is still hope for the U.K. (and I am not a British citizen). I have lived here for a few years and I appreciate the lifestyle, freedom of choice and opportunities the country has offered both my children and myself. Political climates change (might take longer than required) in developed countries. So for me, the UK is not doomed.

lovelookslikethis

We too are the tokens, and its not pretty at exam time when some of the dc cry because they only got 99% in physics.

My ultra self pushed and competitive one doesn't cry, but boy does she get her mad on. It's focussed at herself mainly, but Gods, just once I'd like her to be happy with a mark.

Oh, I lie. She was happy with her 100%. Even she couldn't find fault with that.

Okay, yes, that is possibly a humble brag. I'll cop to it!

@jesuschristwtf 🤣🤣🤣, according to some MN users you tick all the boxes for pushy parents. Oh and mandarin is apparently totally useless (my children take lessons too) 🤣🤣.

It is worth noting that the international language of business is in fact English, automatically ensuring that our children at least have a distinct advantage.
Languages are fabulous, but they are unlikely to be used day to day unless you have a position that requires using multiple different languages. My friend was a whizz linguist, and could speak several languages fluently, but only needed for her entire career: English despite working with many different people from all over the world.

There are many opportunities further afield, and can be embraced by students. I for one feel extremely excited for my children, and the international setting they will find themselves in, definitely it is a global market now and this may be driving tiger parenting.