To charge DS (an apprentice) a nominal rent.

[Fillmitchell]

DS is entering his second year of his apprenticeship in September. He started last September on a salary of 10k, in college full time but the company still pay a salary for the full time college as he’d then go to work for them in the holidays, We had just paid for all of his driving lessons and paid half his first year car insurance when he passed.

When he secured the apprenticeship we agreed a ‘rent’ of £80 a month which replaced the child benefit I was getting which then stopped. This covers all his electric, heating, evening meal, a family takeaway once a week, internet, all his washing and ironing, room hoovered, bedding changed and I still pay his mobile phone bill of £15 a month.

Next month his salary will increase to 12k pa. He will now be in work full time and college one day a week. He has paid his own car insurance this year, pays his car loan and pays for his own clothes and food in work / college. We still charge the £80 a month but most months he’s late and he hands it over a bit grudgingly.

Tonight there’s been words over the fact he’s out until midnight every night, carousing around in his car despite the fact he needs to be up at 6.30am for work. I reminded him that whilst he was still living in our home he needed to be mindful of coming and going at all hours of the night and that he was very lucky to be only paying £80 a month rent and that if he wanted complete freedom to treat the place like a hotel it would cost him a lot more to move out.

He rudely informed me that it is disgusting that we are charging him rent as he’s an apprentice which is considered to be full time education, his friends don’t get charged and even they think we are out of order for taking it. He has made me feel like a grabby, nasty cow to be honest, I’m really upset by it all.

AIBU for taking the £80 a month?

I did my own chores, and if I wasnt working late and wasnt in the house by 8:30 I was locked out as my step dad had to be up at 4am for work

Bloody hell! What did you do, sleep rough?

My son is also doing an apprenticeship scheme, he was 17 when he started (now 18) and earns just under £10k.

He pays us £25 per week which we have said is towards his food costs. We've been very clear to him that this isn't rent, doesn't cover heating etc and that if he was living independently these things would cost him a whole lot more.

If we are having a take away, or a meal out, if he comes with us we will pay for him. We are going on a family holiday in September and again will pay for this. Any holiday, meals out or über eats he orders when he doesn't fancy what food is in the house, he pays for. Plus his phone contract, clothing etc.

I do his washing along with ours, if it's in the linen basket, and give him lifts if I'm available, although I wouldn't put myself out to do this .

I know a lot of people take 'rent' from their older DC and then give it back as savings when they move out. This was initially out intention but after a strop from DS that it wasn't our responsibility to make him save, we've just taken some as housekeeping.

It is a fine line as obviously people don't want their older DC to feel they are no longer cared for, but OTOH if you are not teaching them about realities of grown up living and financial responsibility then you're not really doing your job as a parent.

It always makes me laugh when people say individuals should be doing their own washing in a family house. Why would we all separately wash our clothes? It’s so uneconomical. Sure everyone should load the machine and hang it out, do some ironing. But each person washing their knickers separately?

And it’s perfectly normal fir 19 year olds not to have to tell you where they are going, it’s their private life.
Obviously they’re approaching it the wrong way in their response to you, everyone should be respectful.
And no £80 a week is not unreasonable! It’s good to get used to paying rent!

Keep taking the money, he’s getting a great deal for very little and it still leaves him with loads!

However, I’d drop the convos about late nights, as long as he’s getting up in the mornings ok. This is just what they do at that age ..... but he needs to come home quietly and not disturb everyone.

Your expectations of him around the house seem low - does he help with gardening, cleaning the house, cooking, clearing away, going food shopping, etc?

I wouldn’t charge keep (but would want to see my DC saving and not spending all their wages), but will expect them to be pulling their weight in running a household.

@Coffeeandcherrypie my mum is staying with me this morning so I asked her. She said she had the same from her parents. She doesn't believe that we had children to make money from them (that's her words not mine and not a comment on OP's situation). She said she enjoys my brother's company and is happy for him to be living there.

@Hollywhiskey well I’m glad your mum is happy but charging your adult children keep us not making money off them.

Frankly I would have felt like a right scrounger living with my mum rent-free after I got job after uni. I managed to save up to buy a property in London whilst paying my keep.

Would be interested to know how much your parents do for your brother.

You need to not be cleaning up after him and doing his washing. You are raising an entitled selfish arse.

Try the same post but say you're a stepmother.

Stop vacuuming his room and changing his bedding. He is an adult!

One thing YABU about is him staying out late though, he's not a child anymore so you cant dictate about things like that. I'm sure you were out late at 19 years old. no, I wasn't. I was given a time by which I had to be back, and if I wasn't, then all hell would break loose the next morning. I was once late back and the door was locked and bolted. I didn't hear the end of that for years, even when I was married!

If the son is living at home, and the rest of the household are either schoolkids or working adults, then they want to go to bed and lock up, not have a disturbed night when he sails in at whatever time. I think the OP is being perfectly reasonable on this score.

£80 is nothing, he shouldn't speak so horribly to you.

Even when I was young I never would have called my Mum that.

Oh, FFS, why the fuck are you still cleaning his room, cleaning after him, doing his washing and meals? You're not making money off him, wtf, supporting another adult in the house.

Stop enabling him to be a manchild!

He doesn't like the rules there he can find a room somewhere.

Slightly off topic...but why does a teenager not do chores or his own laundry...?

He's old enough to be a fully functioning member of the household, he's not a toddler! He should have as many cleaning and cooking responsibilities as other adults in the household.

The fact he's male means this is doubly important. How is he going to manage for himself when he does leave home, if he doesn't know how to keep up with regular housework of cleaning his clothes, cleaning his bedding, making food, keeping the house clean...

Honestly, I think this attitude of babying teenagers (and especially teenage boys) is cruel -- you're setting him up to be dependent on women the rest of his life, to get his basic household needs met. (Sorry, this is really not just aimed at you. I'm just ranting because I see it so often on MN and don't understand it.)

I think £80 is reasonable, I think he may have friends that don't pay, so that's why he's a bit ansty about it.

If you did what others suggest and stop doing things, he will query why I am paying. If he's at work/college in the day, then goes out in the evening, how much of the utilities is he using anyway?

Not only that but what do you use the money for? You say it's to replace the CB, what would you spend that on?

It's always interested me due to the parents who get money for their children, but it seldom goes on the children? Especially since this 'me time' thing came in about 20 years ago.

I know some parents who kindly save up the money so the child has a deposit on their first house, plus money for furniture etc. I had friends growing up, when there was no such thing as tax credits, who paid the money into a bank account for their DC.

I have no plan on charging my children, I wasn't charged, my parents weren't charged. I did have a curfew, although the house got locked up at a certain time. If I was going out longer, I'd let my parents know.

Even as a child / teenager, I didn't give my parents an itinerary of where I was going. I might say off to a friends, off to a boyfriends, off to the pub. No more details than that though.

If you consider what he has to pay out, have you thought about how much money he has left after he's paid everything?

You don't want to get into a situation where he decides, I'll just stay in education then, if it means I get the luxuries my friends get.

I think it would be harsh to say well move out and rent somewhere then! How would you feel if he did that and ended up in debt for example?

I've got DC & SC, you do realise the support never really stops. My grandmother would still help her children out when they were in their 50's & 60's. My SC regularly come round for dinner & drinks, we don't say ah before you go that'll be £20 for your portion of what's been eaten, drank, using the electricity, internet, water.

When the SC have been ill they've stayed round, getting looked after, as that's something we do.

Even down to lifts, it would never cross our heads to say oh a taxi would have cost this, so you can pay that. It's a given if we go out that as we earn more, we pay.

I'm glad to see there's parents on here who think it's shocking, as if it's a competition on who can impose the strictest conditions. We see it as one day we might need their help, plus do good for others as what you put in you get back!

A lot of people spend the CB on food and running the house, you know, those bills that go up with the number of people in the home using the power, turning on the heater, charging their gadgets, generating washing and dishes to be cleaned. NOne of that has anything to do with 'me time', WTAF? Plenty of people simply cannot afford to keep an adult in their home for free. Is it really that hard to imagine? Many even downsize after the kids become adults, so they can afford to live more cheaply. Welcome to the real world for many.

He is an adult, he wants to be treated like one re going out which I do think is fair. Keep the £80 the same, but he can pay for everything else himself and do his own chores.

YANBU at all. My brother lives with me and pays £300 a month, I buy odd bits and bobs of food for him and household cleaning bits but for the rest he shifts for himself. Staying out late isn't an issue as he doesn't drive/we live in a somewhat unsafe area to go wandering at night, but I would be steaming mad if he did and woke me up on a work night coming in at 12. He's getting better at realising household work needs to be done of his own accord but will happily do houserwork when he's asked.

OP, I'd up his rent just for the cheek he's showing you, and make him pay back what he owes you for driving lessons and phone bill. All my siblings and I paid/are paying our parents back when they lend us money for things, it all goes in a little red book my dad keeps. Taught us the value of money!

I don't think you're unreasonable about the amount of rent for his salary but if you're charging him and treating him as an adult in one respect you can't then dictate when he comes and goes like he's a child. He will be tired or late for work and he will learn the hard way.

@Hollywhiskey your DPs stance is pretty much similar to my Aunt and Uncle's. Guess what....My 2 cousins still live at home in their 40s!

I know people who still love at home in their 40's and their parents are more than happy.

I'm just saying that some people don't spend child benefits such as CB / CTC / WTC on their children who go without. But they can afford bingo, boozing at weekends and smoking. Extreme example... There's children that a group of parents help with clothes and other things, as they turn up to school in God awful states. Not even having breakfast.

Another way of looking at it, we help the adult SC, they surprise us by taking one / both of us out.

I would set boundaries first, like please put your washing out of this day, I'm stripping the beds tomorrow, can you have yours sorted please before work. Please can you help with cooking 2 nights a week, on a Sunday can you set the table & clear it after, washing up. Could you take (another household member) to this on such a day, then pick them up.

Then change it to, can you put your washing from the week on before you go out on a Friday, I'll dry it for you, but you need to iron it and put it away.

If you compare the two, experience is more valuable than money. I would also say maybe, you need to learn to save for rainy days, from your 19th birthday, we'd like to see you put £80 a month into a savings account. As a 'rainy day fund' or moving into first house / servicing and repairing your car.

When I said I was doing my own laundry, what I meant was I would stick a wash on when the basket was getting full. I shared it with my Mum and step-dad. So whoever was around would put it on/hang it to dry/sort etc then I'd iron my own stuff.

Of course it wouldn't make sense to do individual washes per person.

I think it just depends what type of person and parent you are. I moved out when I was 16 and as much as I love my two children I absolutely do not want them living here when they're adults (maybe aged 21 and over, I know the term adult is a grey area). I want them to be independent and have their own lives. I honestly think people who choose to live at home until they're 25/30/40 etc are a bit sad I know a few who have it so cushy at home it's like a free hotel with a laundry service and so stay (despite them having good jobs and a decent wage). I do judge them a bit I'll be honest....

YANBU at all. You are right, he would have to pay much more if he lived alone.

rude and condescending when I ask him where he’s going and what time he thinks he’ll be home.

Yes because he is an adult. He is bloody annoyed with you, as I would be.

Your posts are a total mess. You’re treating him like a child who is incompetent. Presumably you have never taught him to chip in, do stuff around the house or even do his own washing- jeez. But then you complain that he’s selfish.

Then on top of all this, you’re charging him rent, it’s very mixed messages. Plus why are you going to save the money for him. You said he’s good at saving his own money. Can you imagine someone taking your money and saving it for you? Ffs