To expect parents to teach their little children not to approach my dog?

[joystir59]

It happens all the time- young child screams "Little doggie" and reaches towards Dog with outstretched hands. My dog hates little children doing this and would probably snap at them if they managed to actually get their hands on him. Why don't parents teach their children to ignore strange dogs?

Your dog sounds like a menace. You'd better muzzle that dangerous animal.

Well, if I had a 'snappy' dog I would have them muzzled when out, but I'm surprised by the amount of posters who don't seem to think they have any responsibility in how their child engages with animals they are not familiar with.

@BenWillbondsPant

I agree ... however parents should teach children not approach any strange dog. I like dogs and my favorite are Huskies but I always ask the owner if I can stroke a dog before I do. I usually let the dog sniff my hand first before I touch it.

@joystir59 - it really isn't as easy as teaching children to ignore dogs. Children are unpredictable and they take a LONG time to absorb messages, even when repeated over and over. A toddler is unlikely to harm someone else through being unpredictable though. Your dog, very much so.

it really isn't as easy as teaching children to ignore dogs. Children are unpredictable and they take a LONG time to absorb messages, even when repeated over and over. A toddler is unlikely to harm someone else through being unpredictable though. Your dog, very much so.
Yet another "but it's hard to teach toddlers..."

Roads are often busy and even at 30mph serious injuries can occur. You have your toddler with you. Do you:
A) allow them to run into the road when they feel like it because they're just a toddler and it takes time to teach them rules of road safety. The cars should anticipate a toddler appearing from every direction and drive at 4mph according to your desire to allow your child to discover the world?
B) Actively parent your toddler because you know roads are a safety hazard and therefore there's a bit of control required rather than risking them being hit by a car?

I'm guessing the latter.

Toddlers dont understand water safety and it takes time to teach them it.
Do you:
A) Allow your child to run along river banks and reservoirs chasing ducks and allow them to jump/fall in. After all, it takes such a long time to teach water safety and really those pesky ducks should have known that toddlers would chase them and chosen a different path.
B) actively parent your child so they don't go near river banks and reservoirs out of contact reach until they are old enough to follow instructions reliably and/or understand water safety?

Same with dogs.

There is a dog. The dog may be friendly. They may not be friendly. The dog owner is a responsible owner and has their dog under reasonable and appropriate control. You have no idea how this dog will behave to interaction as you've never met it before.

Do you:
A) Allow your child to run up to the dog yelling 'doggieee', get in its face, invade the dog's space and grab at them. After all they're just a toddler.
B) Actively parent your child by keeping a hold of your child and then ask the dog owner if your child can approach.

A menace? For NOT snapping at a child advancing without permission. Get real!

What part of this are people struggling with?

A dog ON A LEAD and CALM at his owner’s side IS under control. Your child NOT by YOUR side and approaching the dog WITHOUT PERMISSION is NOT under control.

And yes, I’d apply that to my own children, they’ve all of an age now where they know to ask. If they misjudge that and get bitten then on their own head be it.

Children do need to be allowed to run or move around more freely in safe places such as parks or woods and may unintentionally end up close to a dog. I think if someone has a snappy dog the onus is on them to be extra vigilant about this happening.
Also to keep the dog out of grabbing distance of buggies/ anyone who looks like they might be unpredictable. My son wouldn't run towards a dog but he might run near to one or grab at one that went past even when I have hold of him. Being impulsive and unpredictable is part of his disability.

Sleepyblueocean
I agree in part.

The bottom line is that dog owners need to be responsible owners (I think most people on this thread, dog owners included agree on this).

The issue is, as this thread has proven, is that there are still parents who argue that the fact their child is a toddler means they can abdicate parental responsibility and place the onus for their child's actions on dog owners (see the"but they're a toddler so they can't help running up an on lead dog, grabbing the dog's face / but it takes time to teach dog safety / sometimes toddlers just run off because they're curiousetc").
Nobody who claims these lines has managed to explain how "they don't understand dog safety so I couldn't possibly be a responsible parent" works alongside their child not understanding road safety but then, I presume, being bothered enough to prevent their curious child who has no road safety awareness from running under a bus.

I keep my child from running under a bus by holding onto him or him wearing a harness ( at 13) or in his wheelchair because he would probably refuse to walk near a road with buses on it.
He does need to be allowed to have the freedom to move more freely in safe places. He shouldn't be held onto all the time because someone has a dog that snaps at people who might unintentionally come into contact with it.

Sleepy, I’ve also talked about my son with disabilities on this thread, and how he got bitten even after doing everything ‘right’. So I do get where you’re coming from.

Since the OP has only mentioned that her dog MAY snap at an ADVANCING child, I think we can assume that her dog has no issue with children passing and keeping their hands to themselves.

If you want your child to be able to move freely in safe spots then you have to be aware that people with dogs may be in those spots too and adjust your observation. It’s only fair on both sides if the dog is already under control and on a lead

On a path if someone has a snappy dog I would expect them to pull right to the side or off it and keep the dog tight next to them as soon as they see us. That way I have time to move towards him and steer him to the other side of the path.
Being able to move freely in safe places is more than a want. You can't expect severely disabled people to spend there lives permanently attached to others.

Of course you can’t. My son isn’t glued to me at all, and has a lot of independence. What you’re describing isn’t the same as the situation the OP is talking about. The OP’s dog WAS by her side and I’m sure she would react the way you say in that situation.

It’s about not allowing children to enter into the personal space of an on lead and in control unknown animal without permission.

if it's a choice between muzzling/leashing a child, versus a dog, it would be the dog to be restrained. Imho simply because of the greater potential for the dog to harm the child as opposed to the reverse.

But an anxious, leashed dog won't touch a child if the child keeps away from it (and probably won't do anything more than pull back behind the owner's legs anyway) - an uncontrolled child isn't just in danger from the anxious dog, but also from traffic, pulling stuff on top of itself (I've seen a child hurt itself badly by pulling over a supermarket display), eating "picked-up" food from the pavement, pulling someone's hot coffee over itself from a pavement table, tripping someone up (perhaps someone blind or elderly) - the child is a much greater danger to itself and to others than a leashed dog is.

Always remember the time a cute little girl stroked my dickhead greyhound without asking, and he vomited on her feet. She was wearing flip flops at the time.

I was standing talking to a friend while out on a walk (we live rurally so in fields etc) when a toddler appeared from seemingly nowhere and jumped on him from behind. He got the shock of his life, as did I. His mum gave a little laugh and said 'oh he always does that he loves dogs' I was so pissed off. One because the little boy could have hurt my dog by jumping on him and secondly because if he'd bitten in shock, he would have been the one everyone would call a dangerous dog.

This EXACT same thing happened to one of our dogs - to be fair, the child's dad was very apologetic, and also told his little boy off - but we were very lucky that the particular dog the toddler jumped on was our old "bullet-proof" dog, and not the nervous one we have now (not a bad dog - just very shy - she's never bitten but she keeps out of the way of people she doesn't know). I honestly don't know if she would have nipped, but it would have made her even more anxious.

If I’m walking along a path with my dog and see someone coming, I’ll wind her lead around my hand so she’s on a very short lead and put myself between dog and passers by until they have gone.

If I’m sitting in a beer garden with my on-lead dog snoozing under my chair, I absolutely expect you to stop your child running up to her, squealing ‘doooggggiiiieee’, while poking, prodding and manhandling her.

I don’t want to be hassled by your kid, let alone my dog

But judging by the amount of adults who behave this way towards her, I can’t say I’m surprised the kids do it

I would also mention that most people's children are safe from anxious off-lead dogs, because anxious dogs give people a wide berth. In my experience most dogs, other than daft bouncy puppies, do. (Not that I condone letting a puppy jump up at a child or anyone else)

If your child doesn't get the dog pinned in somewhere that they can't escape (unlikely even with the most persistent child - if the dog can get away, it will), then they are quite safe from "snappy" dogs.

There are actively dangerous dogs about, but they are happily few and far between.

Most children who are bitten by dogs are bitten by family dogs that they have been allowed to tease/torment and haave then been left alone with.

No child should ever be allowed to treat a living creature as a toy - it usually isn't the child's fault, as many are too young to realise that they are hurting or frightening the animal; and no child, no matter how gentle, should be left alone with any dog, not matter how sweet-natured.

It's common sense - but as they say, common sense is rarely common.

SchadenfreudePersonified Yes, ours avoids contact with unknown people and particularly children. We try to allow him to feel safe by avoiding busy parks, towns and beaches etc. We’d never tie him up outside anywhere as he’d end up distressed from constant poking and prodding.
There are times you can’t keep him away from people and we try and find a quiet spot where there is a space to hide him from passing people and outstretched hands. He’s never so much as nipped anyone but does have a very loud defensive bark that can be quite scary.
Even when clearly being protected and tucked away feckless parents send their children over to see the spotty dog, as if he’s some sort of entertainment. Ferries are the worse.

Ferries are the worse.

I’ve noticed that too. We use ferries a lot. We go in the designated dog lounge and tuck her away in a corner.

We always end up with kids trying to get to her while we fend them off and send them back to their parents

The ferry is an hour, it’s boring, they’re excited about going ok holiday - I get it, but it’s not up to my dog to entertain your kid

I remembered earlier an incident with our old dog. We were at a set of traffic lights on a busy road, he was sitting at my feet, totally focussed on me waiting for the green light, when out of nowhere a kid throws himself round dogs neck. Made dog jump so he stood up and looked behind to see wtf was going on, there was a clash of heads and I had to grab the child before he fell into the road. When his mum eventually caught up she ranted at me about my out of control dog, how much her son loved dogs, my dog should be muzzled, etc, etc. Dog didn’t snap, bark, growl or anything

It’s incidences like the above that piss me off

God, hard to believe that there's enough room for all these perfectly behaved little angels

Dogs should be on leads in public places, but so should your kid if they won't/can't listen to instructions (for their own safety). If you can't manage your kids behaviour around sources of danger (animals, roads, water whatever) then you should do a better job of supervising. It's not anyone else's job to parent your kids...

Judging by this thread, there are far more irresponsible parents than pet owners

What I don't understand is why, if you know that your dog may snap you don't muzzle him on walks for his own protection, why risk your dog being put down for snapping at a child?

I bought my children up to ask for permission to approach a dog, they still do, they are now all responsible dog owners themselves, they keep their dogs on a short leash the moment another dog, child or even adult appears..

My youngest daughter was mauled by a dog through no fault of her own, it ran out of a house and just attacked her unprovoked as she walked by, she's scarred now for life. The owner knew that the dog was dangerous but still allowed it to be around their own family children, why would you take that risk ??

Luckily my daughter is fine around most dogs now and her scars are coverable, but God I hope no one else has to see their own or even any child screaming for someone to make a dog stop hurting them.

My dog isn’t snappy and is generally a joy however isn’t used to toddlers or small kids. As he is an animal, his behaviour may be unpredictable. I’m not s dog whisperer so although I’m 99% sure he wouldn’t bite them, I have to understand that he’s not used to small folk in his eyeline who are petting him in a way he isn’t used to.
Therefore if someone ASKS is it ok to pet him I allow it but get down with the kid and show them how. If a child approaches without an afoot asking and catches me unaware it really anniys me because if the dog did snap, he’d be the one being put down.... despite being pushed outside of his window of tolerance.
I shouldn’t have to put a muzzle on my well behaved dog for other people’s poorly behaved kids.

Just to add my dog is always on s lead in public places

"He does need to be allowed to have the freedom to move more freely in safe places. He shouldn't be held onto all the time because someone has a dog that snaps at people who might unintentionally come into contact with it*
He doesn't need to be held onto at all times, just needs to not approach an unknown dog who is quite happy with its owner.
I don't understand how any parent can say "it's not my responsibility and not my fault if my child approaches an on lead dog who is content with its owner and doing no harm. It's not my fault if they see a dog minding its own business next to its owner in a cafe and go and shout and grab at it."

And yet those parents are the first to argue that a dog who has been scared, provoked, antagonised, grabbed is some sort of evil mutt who needs and muzzle or putting down if it as much as barks in self defence.

What I don't understand is why, if you know that your dog may snap you don't muzzle him on walks for his own protection, why risk your dog being put down for snapping at a child?

And I don't understand why, if you know that your child may dart and grab a dog, you don't keep a tight hold of him on walks for his own protection. Why risk your child being disfigured for lunging at a dog?