To expect parents to teach their little children not to approach my dog?

[joystir59]

It happens all the time- young child screams "Little doggie" and reaches towards Dog with outstretched hands. My dog hates little children doing this and would probably snap at them if they managed to actually get their hands on him. Why don't parents teach their children to ignore strange dogs?

The thread is about parents who don't control their children around dogs so of course the majority of posts will be dog owners sharing their frustrations and experiences. Dog owners who don't want their nervous, leashed dogs approached are unlikely to be the same ones who allow their dogs to run up to strangers so sharing your own frustrations on a thread like this is preaching to the converted.

If you'd like some more balance in responses, you're free to start a thread about unruly dogs, and I'm sure the majority of the posts will be from people sharing their anger and frustration at idiotic and irresponsible dog owners.

Yet a lot of posters on this thread have minisimed a dog being out of control whilst throwing insults at parents with children who are out control.

Other than in defense of the dog that was kicked for licking or in response to people who said they'd also kick a dog, I haven't seen anyone minimising their dog's unruly behaviour. Unless you count not acknowledging stories and complaints about unruly dogs (because they aren't really relevant to the thread's topic) as 'minimising'.

It is a two way street op!

I don’t think restricting responses based on what the OP wants to hear is beneficial to anyone. Lots of people have taken the time to respond with their experiences of dogs doing the same thing as the children in the OP. That’s not a massive deviance and something dog owners should consider too. It’s not like they are all discussing cars or their holidays or what they had for lunch. It’s all relevant and adds colour to an argument.

The discussion has opened up avenues - might muzzles be an option (I don’t agree with that), maybe talking to parents about how to approach their dog, yellow leads, might dog get less child harassment if they had their dogs under control perhaps (like pp are bemoaning that parents are doing)? It’s worth a consideration, not for all dog owners but certainly for some. Not everyone on MN is a responsible dog owner either, but I’ve not seen any of them called a fucking idiot.

Not everyone on MN is a responsible dog owner either, but I’ve not seen any of them called a fucking idiot

Then you haven't looked closely enough.

There are enough threads on here for the dog haters. This isn't one of them. The OP is clear. If people want to turn the OP completely on its head then they should start a new thread. Or perhaps bump one of the hundreds of dog bashing ones.

In my experience of walking in an area also popular with dog walkers it's dogs who come bounding up to my kids, sniffing them and jumping up to them that are the problem. The owners are either miles away despite there being signs to keep dogs on leads or if they're close the just look on with a simpering face and gush about how friendly their dog is. I don't give a shit about their dog, I don't want it near my children.
My kids don't go up to dogs. They love to see them and often comment on how cute/furry/big/small etc they are but they know not to touch them.

Cherrypie - you seem to be cherrypicking the responses you are reading here!

I am an owner of 5 dogs, and I am a professional trainer/behaviourist.

I have quite clearly said, NO ONE likes dogs being allowed to behave rudely, dangerously, etc etc.

No one is minimising irresponsible dog owners permitting dogs to behave rudely or dangerously.

I’m not bashing dogs, why would I bump a dog bashing thread. I’m saying that maybe calling parents fucking idiots is not the best response when sometimes, if you’ve not bothered to do the training or can’t recall the dog, the dog should be on a lead anyway. Is this a “call parents names” thread or an open discussion?

Some people don’t like dogs. Some people don’t like children. That’s cool, keep them away from each other and you’ll find you won’t need to call anyone a fucking idiot.

I am cross so many posters think the dog is the problem. NO child should ever be allowed to approach a dog without discussing it with the owner. Only recently a dog attacked a 2 year old. The mother said she had allowed the child to try and pet the dog as "she knows about dogs". Most dogs will find it stressful to be touched by a toddler. yes parents must teach this. Of course an unpredictable or snappy dog should not ne near children, but even the best of dogs might snap if caught by surprise. It is vital for dog owners and parents to ensure these contacts do not happen

Widdlin, I agree with your point and want to add that no one wants to see children misbehaving near an animal either. it’s just that some of the responses to parents have been very extreme yet I found the ones where children have been knocked down or frightened, to be much more reserved.

@Mymycherrypie

Imagine if someone started a thread complaining about parents who abandon or don't bother with their children. Other people who've experienced this post their own opinions and frustrations. And then other posters start piping up and saying 'actually, sometimes it's not a choice at all and one parent alienates the child and turns them against their other parent, making a relationship impossible.' And then someone else gets annoyed that the majority of the responses are attacking and calling dead beat parents names but not the parents who purposefully alienate their child from their other parent. Of course parental alienation does happen, it's terrible, and it's tangentially related but it's not the point of the thread so you can't really police people's responses or get annoyed at people for addressing the matter at hand. They're both as bad as each other but the thread isn't about that so the responses will obviously be unbalanced.

Just goes to show how kids can never do no wrong in some parent's eyes

A two year old that runs up to a dog going DOOOOOOOG is just being a two year old. They don't have the sense yet to grasp why there's anything wrong with that, so they're not doing anything wrong. You can tell them, and they might get it, but it won't stick first time, it'll take until they're three or four and they understand more and have a better hold on themselves. The only way to get them not to do that sort of thing at an earlier age is to train them with punishments so that they become too scared of punishment to follow their random toddler urges. Which might be acceptable with dogs, but seems quite a cruel way to treat a human being.

Well I just think that covers the breadth of the topic and covers it a more deeply than everyone just agreeing with each other and walking away thinking parents are morons (and let’s be fair, no one could say OP is BU because of course children shouldn’t touch dogs they don’t know).

Otherwise we could just have 4 pages of people saying YANBU or calling parents idiots and that would be very uninteresting reading.

I definitely think that parents should teach children not to touch or approach dogs.

Completely ignoring them is unreasonable. I don't think there's anything wrong with a small child saying "look a doggy" or similar. I can control to an extent where my children go or what they touch but not really what they say.

You're free to go off on deeper, more interesting tangents if you wish but you can't really complain that other posters would rather stick to the matter at hand.

You should teach kids but it's very difficult with young kids so if your dog will bite then use a muzzle. My dog is a rescue and we did for a while because she didn't like kids either, I think they were too unpredictable. Having both I can say it's much easier to train a dog

Toomuch..

By the same token, a dog who bounces around barking in excitement and trying to take a childs icecream is 'just being a dog'...

But that isn't appropriate or acceptable, so I teach them not to do it AND.. until that point where they can be trusted not to do it, I use a lead and sensible management, to prevent that from happening.

2 year olds don't listen, and take a while to learn - so whilst they are learning and aren't old enough to listen - just use reins and sensible management to prevent it.

Why do we expect a totally different species, to be under 100% control at all times, no mistakes permitted..

But small examples of our OWN species are apparently these completely unpredictable creatures who do things that are dangerous and cannot be possibly contained or controlled?

The matter at hand is that both need to make sure they’ve got their kids or their dogs under control. It’s not just a one sided discussion about how bad parents are, some dog owners need to take the same advice! That’s why I agree it is relevant.

I was one who made a point earlier that my 3 have all been pushed over by dogs coming out of nowhere when we were just standing there, and I never called anyone names, just stated the facts that owners ar guilty of this too. It’s not off topic, it’s more saying (as Eric Clapton sang) before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.

But small examples of our OWN species are apparently these completely unpredictable creatures who do things that are dangerous and cannot be possibly contained or controlled

Because a great many people are desperately unhappy about having to share their public space with other species of animal. Unless said animal is there to entertain when they choose. Thankfully, they don't make the rules.

I haven't RTFT because it won't load properly on my phone. We absolutely have to ensure that children are safe, number one rule there. In order to do that, we have to teach our children how to be in this world which does contain some dangerous animals. Teaching them to ask before approaching a dog or other pet is very important and is fully the responsibility of the parents. Dog owners have a duty to ensure they train their dog but as we all know, you can't 100% guarantee there will never be an incident.
My dog is very well behaved however he hates being grabbed. When children come pelting over to grab at him he backs away usually behind me so I can stop them, sometimes they ignore me and grab him so he growls or barks and I end up in an argument with the parents.

Pps have stated that children are more important than dogs like it's some kind of unassailable fact. It's not. It's an opinion. It may be a widely held opinion but that doesn't make it true.

To the posters who have said that they have/would kick a dog that got too close to their child: if I witnessed this I would hand you a beat down that you may not walk away from. And I'm not even a dog owner. That goes for your brats too if they hurt a defenceless animal.

Yeah WiddlinDiddlin I agree, a puppy acting like a puppy is doing no more wrong than a two year old acting like a two year old. That attitude has been described upthread as parents thinking their children "can do no wrong". I thought I would try and explain that no, it's more that at that age we know they don't know right from wrong. But if you want to go through my post line by line and read stuff into it that isn't there (no, I don't think that two year olds are completely unpredictable or uncontrollable, and I didn't say they were) in order to puff up your rage at parents vs dog owners then by all means fill your boots.

@toomuchtooold There is a thing called parental supervision.

The responsibility goes both ways. Dog owner should be closely supervising a dog which might get nervous around kids and the level of supervision should go up the more likely it is that the dog would react badly. Our dog is young and easily startled by young kids screaming or lunging towards him so I try very hard to never put him in a situation where he might be frightened.

Similarly owners of young kids should be supervising their kids closely around animals (including dogs) and absolutely not allowing them to pet dogs etc unless owner assures it's safe. Even then care is needed because both the kid and the animal can be unpredictable.

My dd was bitten last year as we walked into a shop a dog was tied up and as we walked past it lunged at her and bit her hand badly

TBH I don't think dogs should be left tied up anywhere - and I say that as the owner of three dogs - for the protection of both the dogs and the public.

I didn't used to think like this, but then someone tried to unfasten and steal my elderly bestie when I was in a shop - fortunately I came out as they loosened her and she darted to me, pulling the leash out of his hand and the would-be thief (a respectable looking middle-aged man) ran off.

I have had to stop children from:

1. jabbing tiny plastic forks into a dog's face outside a shop

2. climbing all over a public seat outside a shop where a collie was tied up and clambering not only on the seat, but on the obviously terrified dog

3. trapping a tied-up dog again against a seat (outside a shop - see a pattern here?), and peppering him with lumps of potato using spud guns

Also, my very dog-savvy DD was bitten by a dog tied up (outside a SCHOOL when she tripped up on steps out of the school and fell in front of it. I accept that the dog got a shock with someone landing in front of him - but when I mentioned to the owner what had happened and that perhaps she shouldn't leave her dog there, she said that my DD shouldn't approach a strange dog (she hadn't) and that her dog didn't like children which was why she didn't take it into the school yard - just left it unattended outside the school where anything could happen. I have to admit that I lost it at this point and gave her a mouthful.

For everyone concerned, I don't think dogs should be left unprotected/ unattended.