Do we live in a "paedophile" culture? I think so.

[BlytheSpiritsSpirit]

I came across this old article on Feminist Current:

You’ve heard of rape culture, but have you heard of pedophile culture?

It's really made me stop and think; children are hyper-sexualised in our culture, aren't they? A recent issue my own DD brought up was the way Millie Bobby Brown from Stranger Things has been sexualised as she's grown (example here) and her co-star Finn Wolfhard (example here)

Why do people feel it's ok to sexualise children like this? What about the beauty pagents for 3 year olds, the drag queen competitions for pre-teens, or remember the internet countdown for when the Olsen twins turned 18? (that was a while ago, so clearly this isn't a new phenomenon)

The more I think about it, the more disturbed I get. I think we do live in a paedophile culture, or at least a culture where the hyper-sexualisation of children is completely normalised. AIBU?

I don't know if I would label it a pedophile culture exactly but there are most definitely elements that really push the boundaries I think.

It's not just the sexualiastion of child stars (Emma Watson anyone?) either. It's bikinis for toddlers and the obsession with youth.

It's definitely a bit disturbing if you look into it too deeply

I think we've actually moved further away from it than we used to be.

Just look at old Carry On-type films and you'd see middle-aged men open lusting after school girls in uniform. That wouldn't be OK today, I think.

That said, the Daily Mail Online is not far off.

I think that recently there is a noticeable improvement in what is acceptable for children and young people. And i’m pleased about that. People are now questioning and challenging the sexualisation of children’s clothing etc. But there is still a long way to go.

Do you think it's just gotten more subtle, rather than the open leering? I have friends whose DC have been leered at in public, with a parent present. The anonymity of the internet means people can view child abuse images easily.

If there has been improvement, it seems minimal.

I agree.

At Pride in leeds yesterday, quite a few men met up with others who are also minor attracted persons' (their terminology. Not mine)

They seem quote proud. There was a fuss made.

I womt be going again, a few people said that, yesterday and I would never recommend anyone taking kids there.

Local news has been full of how proud organisers are.

There was NO fuss made

No fuss at all????

This tagging onto the lgbt crowd pisses me right off too. I'm part of that crowd (the b) and I most certainly do not want to be associated with them, nor have any sort of pride in them.

No, none at the event and nothing on social media, where they seem quite happy with their meet up.

Alot of fetishes were also on display.

I agree, I remember being 13 and dressing up to look "sexy" was a thing, we knew we had sex appeal and also aware of adults looking at us. It's wrong for older people to take advantage of that though.

I'm part of that crowd (the b) and I most certainly do not want to be associated with them, nor have any sort of pride in them.

This was the issue for me. Pride (I have only been to leeds) seems to becoming more and more about fetishes and being able to openly display them. Including paedophilia.

In my opinion, it's got worse and worse each year.

It's not ok and it's not what pride is about.

I'm not sure I would say it's paedophile culture, but I do think children are socialised into very narrow gender stereotypes and increasingly the girl stereotypes focus on a narrow type of attractiveness.

What bothers me more, just from the time I've been on MN, is how many women will argue that there's nothing inappropriate about hot pants with slogans on the bum for preteens because it empowers them and they feel confident, if you think anything is too sexualised or inappropriate on a child then you're the one with issues for even thinking that.

It seems like there an agenda somewhere to sell the ideal of narrow beauty standards (usually defined by what is stereotypically appealling to men)to girls by presenting it as female empowerment rather than concerning socialisation. What's more concerning is that this goes hand in hand with a growing voice that nonsensically argues people calling out child sexualisation are the real problem.

The biggest issue is not merely that we sexualise children but that our culture also says that women in particular are only considered sexy if they look like a prepubescent girl. The two things are linked.

@Wishihad is there a source for this? Fucking pride. What the fuck is it all about these days?

The biggest issue is not merely that we sexualise children but that our culture also says that women in particular are only considered sexy if they look like a prepubescent girl. The two things are linked.

I think that's the crux of it really. Not so much the sexualiastion of children, but the infantilisation of grown women to look and behave in childlike ways, to perhaps make the whole thing more palatable? With a line of thought that goes something like 'It's not pedophilia if it's not actually a child'

I've not heard the phrase before. I do think female child victims of sex crimes are sexualised and blamed in a way male victims aren't. When you hear about a teenage (or sometimes even younger) female victim, it's so, so common to hear they looked older, they had make up on, they were drunk, they were flirting etc. I've never ever heard similar about male victims. The boys abused at the football club for example, nobody ever said "well they had shorts on" or they looked older than their age, they wore hair gel or whatever. You don't get rape apologist nonsense of that type when boys are victims, but with girls you always hear that stuff.

That's a really interesting point, ISmell. I haven't considered it from that angle, but you're right.

I remember the countdown in, I think it was The Sun, to Charlotte Church's 16th birthday.

It is stomach churning and I too often hear stories about young girls in their uniform being catcalled by older men and the like.

I agree with you OP

I noticed on the Instagram accounts for the Stranger Things cast members (children!) there a lot of comments saying 🔥🔥🔥 or you are so hot or you look sexy. Thankfully some other followers had noticed that these are inappropriate comments and ask for them to be removed. I hope they were.

YANBU, but it's also difficult because apparently you shouldn't shame young teens about what they wear.

Like fuck would my kid be walking around dressed how loads of these girls do. Because it isn't appropriate. The amount of kids I see walking around with their arse cheeks hanging out of the bottom of their shorts astounds me. And these are kids that are out with their parents - so they haven't got changed in the public loos after leaving the house.

I agree, OP.

And what has mainly changed since the 1970s imo, is that the sexualisation of children has become a commercial opportunity, which may be less fnar-fnar in your face territory, but is actually harder to dislodge, I think.

It's fucking difficult to find decent length shorts for preteen girls, let me tell you. It's not like I haven't tried, either! And a 12 year old goes from looking like a little girl to young woman practically overnight, keeping her clothed is a challenge.

Yes I agree with you OP. It has always been there, but for me the worst thing is that so many people get away with the lie that dressing girls up as sex objects and encouraging them into sexualisation is some kind of post-modernist feminist ironic statement. It isn't. It's the pornification of society and it is everywhere.