Do we live in a "paedophile" culture? I think so.

[BlytheSpiritsSpirit]

I came across this old article on Feminist Current:

You’ve heard of rape culture, but have you heard of pedophile culture?

It's really made me stop and think; children are hyper-sexualised in our culture, aren't they? A recent issue my own DD brought up was the way Millie Bobby Brown from Stranger Things has been sexualised as she's grown (example here) and her co-star Finn Wolfhard (example here)

Why do people feel it's ok to sexualise children like this? What about the beauty pagents for 3 year olds, the drag queen competitions for pre-teens, or remember the internet countdown for when the Olsen twins turned 18? (that was a while ago, so clearly this isn't a new phenomenon)

The more I think about it, the more disturbed I get. I think we do live in a paedophile culture, or at least a culture where the hyper-sexualisation of children is completely normalised. AIBU?

Here's another interesting addition to the thread, I think.

Drag Queen teaches kids how to twerk in a library:

twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1158763415952867328

Screw you, Fresta. That is not why my daughter likes these shorts. How fucking dare you make up shit about my child. It makes me feel sick that you are implying my child is trying to get boys and men to look at her. You know nothing and are talking shite. Thank goodness she's my child and not yours. I was right and should have listened to my first instinct when I hesitated to post about her. I knew some twat would write bollocks about my child. She has so much more about her than her body and she couldn't give a shit about looking nice for boys. She's too busy making future plans for her life.

Rotherham, the place where children get raped abused have a child by your rapist and when you struggle with parenting because of your shite start childrens services tell your abuser they can have contact with the child if they wish

We should be ashamed of our society that allows abuse of children on such a grand scale and continues to abuse them perfectly legally

Minor bloody attracted persons indeed fucking proud of themselves

Also I have a six year old boy ibuy him shorts they are knee length my neighbour has a six year old girl she buys her shorts same shop same size her butt cheeks are hanging out because they are "styled differently" she doesn't like the colours and patterns of the boy shorts her mom is left searching everywhere to find decent length shorts she is SIX no six year old needs "cheeky" shorts

Sexualisation of teens is a separate issue to paedophila. Paedophilia is about the least socially acceptable thing there is so I don't think you can say that on culture.

On sexualisation of teens, I think it is now less acceptable than ever. I don't think you can look too much into clothes and dance. I'm sure someone older than me could come up with plenty of examples of clothes previously considered inappropriate that are now widely acceptable. I think those things reflect changes in fashion rather than morality.

BlytheSpiritsSpirit that drag queen isn't only teaching kids to twerk in real life - he was asking them to DM him their email address today.

Massive safeguarding fail. Responsible adults should never, ever encourage DC to contact strangers online. At best naive. At worst, grooming in broad daylight.

(He's deleted the tweet but not commented AFAIK, after many people pointed out how dodgy this is).

On sexualisation of teens, I think it is now less acceptable than ever.

I don’t know about that. It may be that it’s less acceptable for teachers to have relationships with pupils and for men to discuss the attractiveness of their friend’s daughters, but the leery comments my daughters get are just as bad as what my friends and I got, the suggestive comments and wolf-whistles are just as bad.

And when I was a teen - although there were plenty of "creepy" men out there - we dressed positively frumpily compared to my teenagers. Long skirts, baggy shirts and jumpers, certainly not well groomed and sleek.

In some ways some things have got better - teachers can't just turn a blind eye, and the real creeps get the sack. Somethings are pretty much the same - catcalling schoolgirls in uniforms. And some are worse - the extreme sexual stereotyping - one of my DD describes herself as "unique" as she has a short hair cut (a very very normal hairstyle even 10-15 years ago).

@LolaSmiles Totally agree about the women who start defending their right to dress their daughters sexily. So awful that many little girls cannot get a modicum of protection from their own mother's at such a vulnerable age.

Also... Anyone notice any attempt to discuss this matter in a rational manner & the abuse trolls start name calling and claiming posters are personally attacking them? AIBU or Is this a deliberate strategy by Paedophile's & sympathisers to get these threads derailed and taken down??!

I'm on the fence with this one. I don't think it is any better or any worse than it's ever been. It's probably just more prominent and notable now because of the internet and social media.

The age of consent is no longer 12 as it once was in this country. People now talk about 18YO being 'young and vulnerable' sexually. When in reality, they are considered to be consenting adults. The age of consent in other parts of the world (including mainland Europe) is 14. I knew girls who were having sexual relationships at 13 and pregnant at 14 and this was 25 years ago.

I appreciate that there are extreme examples we can share, but I was just musing on the broader societal norms, expectations and what's blindly accepted.

I do think it's always been in society, this sexualisation of children/young teens, just with the internet, creeps can mobilise and communicate, thus strengthening, bolstering and emboldening each other.

I keep delving down the rabbit hole of google searches about this, and there is some distinctly dodgy stuff that was written about Shirley Temple. So obviously it isn't new.

And the disintegration of safeguarding from people who know better? That's scary. Really scary.

The idea that 16 year old girls have no awareness of their sexuality is ridiculous! A 16 year old is a sexually mature adult woman. Yes, mentally they may still have a little maturing to do, but for all intents and purposes they are are physically an adult.

Fresta
A 16 yo isn’t a sexually mature adult woman. Legally she is a child. Legally she cannot access mature themed material - videos / photos etc. Legally no one can take and keep a photograph of her naked body. Including herself. She may or may not be sexually active.

She is a long way to being 18 for there is a world of difference between a 16 yo and and 18 yo. However when teens are legally considered adults at 18, the prefrontal cortex is only half formed. That’s the part that does the higher, cognitive reasoning. It doesn’t fully form until a person is approximately 25 years old.

As for your comment that they may have a little maturing to do. That is also absolute bollocks. A 16 yo has a long way to becoming a mature adult. Approximately 9 years actually.

The average 16 yo girl really does not understand the full impact of wearing skimpy clothes. I remember doing the same when I was 16. Like hell was I doing it to attract some lecherous pedophile.

Blythe
I heard about the bookings some time ago. It is horrible that there is a demand for this shit. What are the parents thinking?

Apologies for off topic from op's thread but for those of you wanting shorts for girls. I noticed yesterday that the boys sections of fat face and la redoute have longer shorts of all different colours that might do for some of your girls. Not that it addresses the inherent issues of stereotyping in obtaining decent clothes for girls.

I was barely aware of my sexuality at 16. I was still very much a child.

Fresta your comment is deeply disturbing.

When an animal reaches sexual maturity they are considered to have reached adulthood. Our brains are constantly changing throughout our lives- the maturation of the brain is not the same as sexual maturity. It's ridiculous to consider a 24 year a child! The belief that a 16/17 year old girl is a child is purely a cultural definition- in the past and in many other cultures throughout the world the age a child is considered an adult is much younger.

I have a very tall 9 year old DD, she is currently wearing age 12/13 clothes. It is nigh on impossible to find any shorts that don't show her pants and that she feels comfortable wearing. We get her boys shorts and cut down jeans because they're a 'sensible' length and more comfortable because the materials encourage movement and aren't embellished with ridiculous sequins, slogans or glitter.

We are also just about to go School skirt shopping which is my Main bug bear - they are all stupidly short in the leg and really inappropriate (IMHO). There are no skirt styles I've seen that go below the knee and even trousers are cut in a much tighter way than the Boy equivalent.

It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm not advocating a Handmaids Tale style uniform but there really is very little choice on the high street, and I think that absolutely bleeds into the hyper sexualisation and inequality that is still everywhere.

Fresta
Biological maturity and social and emotional maturity are two very different things.

There are some people in the world who think that starting menstruation makes a girl a woman eligible to be married. Most sensible people consider child marriage wrong.

The fact you seem quite happy to focus on the biological over anything else is quite concerning.
Next you'll be telling us a 14 year who who has reached biological maturity should be considered an adult for the purposes of sexual relationships with adults, after all child/adult are just social constructs and they're really an adult.

AIBU or Is this a deliberate strategy by Paedophile's & sympathisers to get these threads derailed and taken down??!
I think you're right. If not paedophiles, people who are more invested in presenting teenage children as sexually mature adults than is healthy.

Will teens be aware of their own developing sexuality? Absolutely. Will some teens be sexually active? Yes. Does that mean we should be counting teenagers as sexually mature adults? No and I'm wary of any adult who wants to push that agenda.

A 16 year old is a sexually mature adult woman. Yes, mentally they may still have a little maturing to do, but for all intents and purposes they are are physically an adult

Fresta are you high? Or drunk? That's the only real way I can imagine you typing out those sentences and choosing to press post, particularly on a thread like this.

A 16 year old is a child. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Peddling your "when an animal reaches sexual maturity" nonsense makes me question the deeply worrying motives behind you believing that.

Padded bras for little girls doesn't help either

We need to be very carefully to distinguish between "padded" for the sake of push up and "padded" that simply have a firmer cup.

The latter absolutely DOES help early developers!

So do you all think the age of consent should be raised?

Fresta
I never said 24 was a child. You are twisting my words.

The age of majority was 21 in the U.K. until 1974. DFOD with your “cultural definition”.

The age of majority varies over time and culture- it's a cultural definition not a biological one!

I actually think in some ways things have improved. When I was 15 in the 90’s I was in a relationship with a 21 year old man, and virtually everyone was fine with that. Looking back, I can totally say I was groomed. But I certainly wasn’t unusual among my friends. I just don’t think that kind of thing is as socially acceptable now.
We were also taught that catcalling was a compliment, whereas now that attitude is much less prevalent.