AIBU - bossy, critical DH? Can such men change and how?

[pseudonomer]

Could I ask, does anyone have any experience of a bossy husband in the sense that you were able to get him to see it for himself and change for the better? I’ve been in therapy for a year and I’m seeing things differently, yet I still love my DH very much and sometimes wonder if I’m being narcissistic and spoilt. Ultimately he would do anything for me. He’s very kind in many ways and totally honest. But he’s a workaholic and can be very critical and overwhelming. We are mid 40s and have 3 DC. Does anyone have experience if such a dynamic shifting and, if so, how? Thankyou.

God, it’s exhausting reading your posts-he sounds so difficult to life with.

Do you work?

I don't think you are ready to take advice.

One year when the kids were small, we went on a UK family holiday.

I left the kids coats behind on their beds and it rained all week. My husband just laughed, shrugged and drove us to the nearest shop to buy new ones.

Another time he didn't pack any underwear for himself. No harsh words were spoken in these situations. No blaming or guilt tripping was done. The ( minor) problems were solved with minimum fuss and life went on.

This is how it should be, op. Your husband is abusive.

He treats you like a slave and you agree with him because you follow his script and treat him as if he is the master
Write your own script and tell him to fuck off
What does he have on you, what is it that makes you obey him?

I don’t know if I’m ready to take advice or not. I mean, I am, but I also feel at a loss. I’ve been with him for 20 years, so basically my entire adult life.

Due to the therapy, I have been able to tell him (in his more receptive moments), that his moods and demands are too much for me. I’ve said it’s not that I’m nor sympathetic to his stress, but can he not see that it impacts everyone in the house. I’ve told him it overwhelms me and I’m anxious all the time. Also that me doing this or that will ultimately not help him, it only aids him to keep spinning out and it’s a destructive pattern. He’s been very successful at work, but can’t see that and any kind of failure terrifies him. He just can’t cope with it. I think he’s an extreme workaholic so that he doesn’t have to ever stop and think. His father had mental health problems. His brother has been treated for post-traumatic stress and was very ill for a while. So I feel like my whole life is trying to pacify him, but really it’s hopeless if he won’t take steps to change himself..

He is using you to prop him up because he doesn't want to do the hard work of looking at himself and being honest, he is crushing you just so that he can keep going.
There is probably no point explaining all this because he will spin everything to suit him, he has had 20 years of practice moulding you into the shape that most suits him

Between you both you are fucking your kids up.

Do you acknowledge this?. The template of how relationships work that is being played out to them is extremely damaging. A som will grow up to treat women like shit. A daughter will grow up to let men treat her like shit. Is this ok ? Is this how you envisioned bringing up a family ?

I'm sorry but you are kidding yourself about the impact of this on your children. Children are always affected by living with coercive control.

He is abusing them too, and it will affect them for life, just like your childhood abuse.

Just because he tells you and them that he loves you in between abusing you doesn't stop it causing serious damage. Coercive control is a crime for a reason.

Are you going to look at the Freedom Programme? It's just info, not therapy. You don't have to share or talk, you can just listen. Freedomprogramme.co.uk

Your children's home should be somewhere they feel safe and protected, not somewhere they're always walking on eggshells and never know how they will be treated or what will be acceptable today compared to yesterday.

It's not safe now. If he loved them he wouldn't be inflicting that on them. Actions speak louder than words.

Another question: what about sex?
Are you evenly-matched there? What would happen if you weren't in the mood or refused him?

I will look at the Freedom Programme. Sorry, I’m not ready to leave him at this stage. I have thought about it at times, but I have to be honest. All have said is true but I can’t give the entire picture. I’ve been there for my kids every day of their lives and I have tried to balance everything out. It’s not perfect, but there are loads of positives too. I just can’t explain it all on here.

Angelina - he has a very high sex drive yes, but I wouldn’t say he’s coercive in that area. He understands about my past and he’s good about that. This morning he woke me up wanting sex, but if I really hadn’t felt able to, he wouldn’t have sulked.

He is honest that he watches porn when he’s away and I was very upset about this at first. But he assured me he doesn’t watch violent stuff because he’s not into that in any way, nor anything even with men in it at all because he said why would he want to look at that.

You can go on Freedom without leaving him - and they'll never tell you to leave him.

Do you at least tell the children "no, dad shouldn't have treated you like that, it was wrong and I'm sorry it happened" or do you cover up for him and minimise it?

I do talk to the kids, yes. They’re very open with me. My youngest did tell him recently that she finds him too stressed and it worries her. He found that very hard to take, but he has spoken to her since and apologised and he says he’s going to change. He had promised this to me as well, since his recent blow up. We’re just going to try and reflect his behaviour back to him as it happens. That’s why I was asking if change is possible.

He's got you exactly where he wants you hasn't he? He has exacting standards that you can't ever achieve, a reason to be annoyed with you when there isn't any and you're walking on eggshells to make sure you do no wrong.

This isn't a healthy and happy relationship at all. Where's the fun? The respect? The feeling that you're in it together? The feeling that you've both done amazing things to get to where you are? The sense of team? What's all this teaching the kids?

You say you're not ready to leave, but the alternative is continuing to be miserable, never good enough and eventually battered down to a point where there's nothing of you left.

Speak to a friend or family member, someone irl. Start putting money aside, start investigating life on the other side so that when you are ready, you're good to go.

He probably COULD change if he wanted to yes. Most abusive men could, if they wanted to. The problem is that the underlying attitudes that make them abusive - in his case, that he is the most important member of the family and you as his wife exist to serve his needs - are the same attitudes that mean they don’t want to change.

You say he’s promised to change. What practical steps is he taking to do that? Counselling? Self-help? Ditching some of his needlessly stressy work commitments, or his hobbies that you must facilitate? Or has he just vaguely promised to try being a bit less snappy with you all?

I was a child in a similar set up. My mother finally got us away when I was 14. I'm telling you this so you can better judge how it affects your children.
So we walked on eggshells., I was always nervous, I figured out early on that whatever I did/didnt do would never placate him, so I didnt bother to try. But still I was a nervy mess. He could come home over the moon that the day had gone well or incoherent with rage. I was a skinny child, living on nerves makes me not eat to this day.
So to now:-
I jump at every loud noise, I even startle when I hear someone coming but it's a minute later that I see them.
I live on the edge still, all the time. If something triggers me I go into fight or flight and then am like that for the rest of the day. It's no way to live.
If my DP is angry at something (pretty rare tbh) i go into myself because i am petrified of i dont even know what.
I dont like being alone in a room with a man, not even the most trusted man ever. I have no choice obviously sometimes but I can feel my heart racing and my shoulders get ever higher.
If anything goes wrong at work even if it's not my fault I catastrophise it for days sometimes.
If I hear loud voices or sharp words I stay the hell out of whatever it is.
And I could easily go on with all the things I do that are directly related to living with a bastard for 14 years of my life, but the biggest thing I will tell you, I went no contact with both of them. I haven't spoken to them in decades. I wont ever again. Just seeing them I think would trigger a nervous breakdown in me.
I know you say ok I understand him, but why your mother? Because she let me live like that for so long. I don't care that she too was suffering at his hands, she could and should have left sooner to protect me.

Sobering words @dangerfloof

I too am in low contact with my mother. My patents only live 3 miles away but I rarely see them. I cannot bear their company...him because he is a dick I lost respect for when I was about 8 and her because she put her appeasing relationship with my abusive father above the emotional well being of her children

Just like op is doing

When I've read similar threads to this before, with a controlling dh, and the dw defends him by saying he provides for us and works hard for us so we have no worries etc, the examples of generosity given are also controlling because they are on his terms. Things he deems are providing for the family.

Most abusive men aren't shouting "I NEED SUPPORT" to their clients and friends because they know it's unacceptable behaviour. I bet your h knows that others wouldn't stand for his nasty abusive ways.

It sounds like you're not ready to leave yet but the longer you stay, the more likely that your kids will end up in similar relationships because you've made this situation normal and forced to hear/see/experience this extreme behaviour. It's not bossy - it's bloody frightening that you're checking the bins for plastic and obeying his unreasonable demands. I bet your 10 year old doesn't go round shouting for you to polish her shoes or shop at inconvenient places.

You can force him to change. The only person who can do that is him.

The only control you have is your reactions to him. It's not your fault that he's a workaholic and abuses you and the kids. Take the I love yous with a pinch of salt. Abusers do this to stall the date that you leave them and to have you doubting how bad he is.

I wonder what would happen if , next time he petulantly shouts, "You're my wife. Act like it." You respond, "You know what? How about I'm no longer your wife and you fuck right off for DARING to speak to me like that?"
You need to find your anger, OP.

It makes you wonder what he thinks the role of a husband is apart from providing sperm to make kids and money.

He tells me that I should want to help him out and if I don’t, it shows I don’t love him enough. He shouldn’t have to ask, it should come naturally or there’s something wrong.

But that only works one way though right? He doesn't have to prove he loves you by jumping every time you click your fingers and doing the menial jobs that you give him? He doesn't have a list of chores that you will berate him about? He doesn't have to change his routine to suit your whims? Because only one of you is required to show love like that, he just shouts and rants and makes you all feel like shit, but that's ok because he is sometimes not awful. He's fucked up and he's fucking you and your kids up too. I hope you are it before you're all too far gone.

He got angry on the morning he was leaving as he felt I was prioritising taking DD to the GP rather than assisting him. He shouted at me “I NEED SUPPORT!” And he said, “you’re my wife, act like it.”

Quite apart from how abusive this is to you, this is a shocking example to give your children. They are going to grow up with a very distorted view of how husbands and wives should behave. You can talk all you like to them, as openly as you want but they will still internalise the message that is being played out every day in their home. Don't tell me your children don't notice how nervous you are, your checking the rubbish, his orders to you, his humphing around if displeased, his shouting at you - you cleaning his shoes for him for god's sake.

My dh works in a very senior role in a very stressful industry and travels a lot. He packs his own bags, cleans his own shoes (jesus the thought of him telling me to clean his shoes - he'd rather eat his shoes), gets himself out the door all by himself because he is an adult. Your dh has mh issues imo but whether he does or not his relationship with you is toxic for you and your children.

When he apologised to you today what did you reply? Because the normal thing to reply would be "an apology isn't going to cut it. You spoke and behaved to me in a way no one should and our children were exposed to something ugly and abusive - yet again. sorry isn't enough. What are you going to do to make sure you don't lose control like that ever again"

What did you say when he spoke about the supermarket? The normal response would be "that's interesting but I do the shopping so I'll be making that choice, thanks"

Personally I couldn't waste my one life checking the rubbish, walking on eggshells and cleaning my husband's shoes. I bet you are relieved when he leaves on a trip and are nervous about him coming back. think about that.

I’m sorry but I can’t reply to this anymore.
I shouldn’t have posted here because some replies have been too much. Thankyou to everyone who took the time and I do appreciate that