To not give birth through the NHS?

[HereOrThereAndAnywhere]

With all the news stories of poor NHS maternity care and not good outcomes, I'm wondering if it would be worth it to give birth in another country. Is that a bad idea? Was your birth experience (if you had one in the last couple years) ok?

For voting purposes

YABU = Maternity care is perfect and there's nothing to worry about
YANBU = Maternity care has really gone downhill so I would try to figure out another way to give birth either privately or abroad

A friend of mine gave birth prematurely in France. She and the baby were in hospital for months, as they were both to sick to travel. Her husband had to go back work after a bit. So she was stuck alone in a foreign country, scared and alone, barely understanding what was happening to her & her baby. It cost them thousands (no travel insurance) - the thousands they had saved up for a house deposit.

So to me, it doesn't make sense what you are proposing: if it is going to be straightforward, you might has well use the NHS?

if things are going to go wrong, wouldn't you want to understand everything that was going on and not be bankrupted in the process?

Your best bet is to stick with the NHS, to be armed with a lot of information up front and make sure you have a pushy partner with you who advocates for your effectively.

How would you bring the baby home with no passport? And would the baby not have to apply for British nationality?

I had AMAZING experiences each time with mine. All 3 have been incredible..BUT

I am v low risk
Easy births (nothing to do with nhs or midwives, just happened that way)
Married to a medically involved dh who was able to advocate for me.

I'm expecting twins and am paying for a private midwife as I want xyz and I know that the nhs aren't able to offer that (having been de skilled in certain areas, litigious culture, etc).

Read ‘This is going to hurt’ and then tell me you’d go private to have your baby. You basically get a nicer dinner and a consultant with more of an eye on finances than your welfare.

You might struggle to give birth abroad. My SIL has dual citizenship between the US and the UK and she couldn't get the insurance required to cover her to travel to America within 3 months of her due date, just in case she went into labour while she was over there.

I gave birth in a private wing of an NHS hospital in London. The service was excellent. With consultant-led care, I chose the time and date of my antenatal appointments and the consultant did all of the scans himself.

For labour, I chose an elcs, which was lovely and calm. The midwife stayed with me from check in and during the op and then I did recovery in my own room and she provided 1:1 care for the first 24 hours. I kept my catheter in for 24 hours, so didn’t move till I felt ready and my painkillers were available immediately on request. I stayed in for 3 nights, so recovery was restful and my DH could sleep over on the guest bed in the room. I was also very glad of my own en-suite. The consultant visited every day during my stay. Recovery was quick and easy.

The total bill was £22,000 for a straightforward, no complications elcs. If paying privately is an option, I’d fully recommend the private wing in an NHS hospital option (either Lindo Wing at St Mary’s or Kensington Wing at Chelsea & Westminster)

I'm a midwife and I've had three babies under NHS care, all at home so I'm very pro NHS but I have also witnessed the business, the poor after care and mistakes so appreciate your reservations

Your plan to travel to Poland or Greece isn't great, I work with midwives from those countries and the stories are fairly eye opening.

Private in this country for a VBAC - are you talking about midwifery care or obstetrics?

Being born in Greece wouldn't give your child Greek nationality or voting rights I don't think. I'm sure Greek nationality comes from your parents rather than being born there.

Also how long would you have to be in Greece to organise birth certificates and passport for the child?

If it's closer care from staff who don't have other patients in the room next door that you are looking for, and if your pregnancy has been uncomplicated then home birth might be an option.
I've had two home births. Had one midwife here and then she called a second to be here just in time for the birth. It was relaxed and the 1:1 attention gave me far more confidence than my last hideous hospital experience (our local hospital was failing badly in basic maternity care at the time).
The midwives are not hospital midwives so you are not taking them away from the hospital by opting for it. The only concern is if everyone locally goes into labour at the same time, but when I checked with my community midwife team they said they'd only had two occasions where they couldn't send anyone to a woman and they were both extreme occasions (one was road issues and one was weather).

Why don’t you pay to ‘top up’ NHS provision? E.g. a private midwife or doula, especially afterwards to help establish bf/looking after baby.

My eldest was born in Spain...stay where u r. Even private it's a different language and culture.
My 2nd was here and the familiar surroundings even though chaotic made it all a bit easier.

*What country do you think has better maternity care?

I was perhaps thinking of paying privately to give birth in another EU country*

Have you considered what the implications of having a baby in an EU country with Brexit going on may be?

I thought St Mary's in Manchester had a good reputation? I think you can pay for private rooms.

Honestly, I would start by researching your local hospitals. That's what I did and chose the one with the best reviews. The midwifes were amazing. The doctors not so much. But if you arm yourself with evidence and research beforehand to inform your care that can really help. But I think you need that when going private or NHS

Spanish resident here; given birth in private Spanish hospital x2 at v low cost compared to the UK. PM me if you like; I cannot fault Spanish hospitals and care and would definitely recommend. Friends in UK giving birth in NHS hospitals have had many many problems due to understaffing including our friend almost died due to her ceaserian scar going septic...

My 3 births were horrific in the Croydon area. So I understand your NHS fears.

However I would recommend researching the best UK hospitals and aiming for those at around the time of birth.

Overseas would not be ideal in my opinion and could impact on LO throughout live, having to provide documentation of citizenship etc, passports, schools, everything

The practicalities will be a nightmare to arrange.

It will cost a fortune.

It's not guaranteed it will be better, fuck ups happen anywhere.

If you can afford it, go private, and release some of the pressure on the NHS

My 3 NHS deliveries were faultless, as was the prenatal/postnatal care. AMAZING in fact! I wouldn't consider private based on my own experiences. However, like everything else, it's all about funding and location, location, location. I'm in West London, so I was spoiled for choice.
I had consultant-led care for my last pregnancy/delivery because of a previous stillbirth combined with my age at term (42).

I’ve had 2 very good experiences in the last 3 years on the nhs. I was low risk with both but things happened in labour that could have ended badly both times. I had amazing care and left without so much as a graze. This was mainly due to the people looking after me making the right decisions at the right time. I really can’t fault anything or anyone. I felt very well looked after.

I don’t think you’re going to get much better paying to go private, I mean unless your name is Kate or Meghan, in which case you call in the best consultant in the country to sit with you from the minute you see a line on the test.

Surely if you're about to give birth you're too far along to travel safely to another country?

Personally my experience of giving birth (hospital wise) was ok, the staff did their best to make it smooth as possible - maybe just check which of your local hospitals have the best maternity units instead?

Oh, forgot to say; the hospital chain I gave birth at had hospital nurses/doctors fluent in English, own room with sofabed for husband, tv, special post natal menu, own fridge & bathroom and minimum stay of 3 nights obligatory for approximately 2000 pounds. I would definitely do again but all done now

I've said YANBU but in a way you are and you aren't. I don't think asking the question or looking into your options is unreasonable at all.

A lot of NHS services vary by place in the UK, which means some people have vastly different experiences to others. FWIW, my experience in the UK and abroad is as follows (bear in mind I don't give birth until I go in on Sunday to be induced):

My first pregnancy was in the North of England and the "care" I received was so bad I was traumatized and terrified of ever getting pregnant again. The baby did not live and I nearly died too. I was so scared that I couldn't contemplate EVER getting pregnant again if it meant being pregnant under the NHS because at the time, I really thought it was an NHS-wide issue. I looked into private care and (at the time, IDK if it's changed) there was nothing fully private in the north, and going to London, the accommodation costs alone of being there pre-birth was actually more expensive than going abroad. Anyway, it was also the antenatal care that I needed to be better.

We emigrated to east Asia (for hubby's work) two years ago and my experience with this pregnancy was totally different. They had me booked in for a C-section from week 12. With my first pregnancy, I was convinced I was going to die if I gave birth because I just didn't trust the NHS maternity services where I lived and with my current pregnancy, I felt differently. At first.

BUT as this pregnancy progressed, I felt like the doctors (there were no midwives in the country I was living in this time around) wanted to do more and more unnecessary and invasive tests (all chargeable, of course). Literally none of my questions were ever answered and add into that a bunch of crazy cultural superstitions that the doctors believed even in this private, "western" hospital. The hospital was 2 hours' drive away and I got fed up by week 24 of them trying to call me in for stupid reasons, just to test more and charge us more money. When I (feeling braver by this point) asked if I could try for a vaginal birth I was told no for some made up medical reason that was frankly bollocks. I also got very fed up of getting ultrasound scans at EVERY appointment but not being allowed to find out the gender or getting/being allowed to take any pics to give to MIL etc. One huge issue was that we were paying for the hospital's translator and she literally couldn't be bothered to actually translate 95% of what was going on.

When I had some perspective on the whole situation, I flew back to the UK, but I was still determined I wasn't giving birth in the place I'd previously been pregnant. I just couldn't. So I rented a house in Northern Ireland (FWIW my family are Irish so that was also an option for us). Now, there are a LOT of stories about how Northern Ireland has the VERY worst healthcare, but actually they do maternity really well, and my care since week 34 when I finally got a house rented and got my referrals... I've been blown away. I'm booked into a wonderful hospital, with doctors and midwives I trust, I've seen the same doctor for my last 2 appointments and I have a named midwife who can answer my stupidest questions, and who will be doing home visits (OMG WOW) after the baby is born. I've met my HV already and everyone is just so supportive and helpful, without being interfering or telling me what to do. They ask my consent before doing simple things (had a membrane sweep 2 days ago, couldn't believe they asked before doing it).

I've learned there are places in the UK where you can have a baby that are fab and places that are terrible. And there are places abroad that are likewise great or awful. Only you can decide what is best for you. I strongly feel that we're in exactly the right place to have this baby. If we weren't getting such amazing care with this baby, I would have hired a private midwife or doula to advocate for me and prob had a homebirth so I would feel more in control.

And as a LOT of PPs have pointed out, please PLEASE think about neonatal care because paying for the birth is just the beginning. www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-47541801

ALSO think about the visa/passport situation. You don't currently need a visa for the EU, of course, but you will need time to get the baby a passport before you can come home and that's not always as quick as it should be, so factor in more accommodation costs for that. One of my friends got stranded abroad for 5 months because of a technicality and then a bunch of delays at the passport office after her baby was born overseas.

Sorry this was long but your question really resonated and I hope this helps.

My NHS experience was phenomenal, in hospital 7 days overall, 2 days on induction ward, 48 hours on delivery ward and the rest in postnatal. I had a really rubbish labour, lots of complications and an emergency section. Couldn't fault a single midwife, they are busy and overstretched but I was attempted to quickly. After my section all the doctors that performed it came in the next day to see DC and how I was. I was on seizure watch after I had DC and the midwives were brilliant and reassuring. Just my experience but I wouldn't go anywhere else and I felt safe and reassured at all times.

I had a horrific experience in the NHS and the lack of continuity of care is awful. I wouldn't have had another child if we couldn't have paid to go private.

To answer your question, YANBU to want to give birth in Greece/Poland (if you're a dual citizen). But it is easier to give birth here, close to home and where you're all set up. Check out your local facilities.