How does someone like Jacob Rees- Mogg even come to exist, let alone end up as Leader of the Commons?
screentime · 28/07/2019 19:54
Is anyone else in utter disbelief at what politics has come to in the UK? The nation being pushed off the precipice because “democracy”, even though nobody voted for either if these last two PMs and if the referendum was a GE it would have been a hung Parliament. Plus nobody even knew what Brexit would entail when they voted. Everyone knows and openly admits we’ll all be worse off, but never mind, it’s “the voice if the people” . How the hell is BJ PM when he ducked out after the referendum result and flounced out of the negotiations? One day he’s saying he’ll get a great new deal and the “doubters” will be proved wrong, the next day we hear he’s preparing for a no deal as the most likely outcome. What planet is he on? And having brought the nation to this point where we’re the laughing stock of Europe, this JRM “Esq” is focusing on how many spaces to leave between sentences and wittering on about banning random words like some demented headmaster on some petty power trip! It beggars belief. And then he turns up in Wales with a son who is wearing the same clothes as him. If you went out in the streets and looked, you couldn’t find anyone who is more of an utter loon. How is any of this happening? I ask this as someone who has mainly voted Conservative in the past due to the economy, but who in their right mind would vote for this lot? AIBU?
wheresmymojo · 29/07/2019 08:41
I agree with PP saying we should try to stick to attacking policies and opinions rather than people.
I don't like JRMs views on abortion and many other things one bit. I expected not to like him as a person, but I have to say that having listened to a couple of podcasts with him I actually think he comes across as warm, considered and intelligent.
The dynamic between JRM and Jess Philips is interesting; they disagree with each other's politics intensely but are both able to bluntly disagree with each other's views while maintaining a good working relationship.
Really recommend these podcasts...
JRM interview podcast: podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/political-thinking-with-nick-robinson/id1224154223?i=1000404586057
Jess Philips interview podcast: podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/political-thinking-with-nick-robinson/id1224154223?i=1000400776531
Poloshot · 29/07/2019 08:44
Him and BJ are a breath of fresh air. I know a lot of people who support them
BogglesGoggles · 29/07/2019 08:46
We have a two party system. No prime minister has ever be voted in. We vote for MPs who form a majority and select a leader.
BogglesGoggles · 29/07/2019 08:47
Oh, a the Catholic Church vans contraception - that’s how JRM came about
StoneofDestiny · 29/07/2019 08:59
Him and BJ are a breath of fresh air
Wow / air pollution in your area must be severe!
StoneofDestiny · 29/07/2019 09:00
Except they don’t ban contraception
TheABC · 29/07/2019 09:06
I actually know people like JRM and whilst I detest the man's policies, he does have a working brain and consistent values (not yours or mine, but....). He has advocated for Brexit long before it became popular and I think the No-Deal aspect is less about screwing the country and more about getting a free hand to Make Britain Great again.
What is going to be interesting is watching him ( and the others) trying to work under Johnson on a daily basis without exploding.
SquishySquirmy · 29/07/2019 09:12
Disliking JRM, BJ et al is not "inverse snobbery".
Not is it the preserve of "Corbyn supporters"
It's not even anti Tory!
Many Conservative voters (and even MPs) are appalled at what has happened to the party
The party members seem to be far more extreme than most of the MPs. This is true of the Labour party too.
The sort of moderate voter that often votes Conservative for the economy (but is not blue enough to join the party) is politically homeless at the moment. The same is true of the moderate Labour voters who are appalled by Corbyn.
There is a huge amount of space between the two extremes of "all Tories are SCUM" and "bring back hanging that'll teach the Libby lefto TRAITORS rah rah this will hurt Johnny foreigner more than us".
That space between the two is where most people are.
beluga425 · 29/07/2019 09:22
I ask this as someone who has mainly voted Conservative...
You got what you voted for.
Gone2far · 29/07/2019 09:39
Perhaps if Labour weren't so utterly shit we might be in a different place. Perhaps if they had concentrated less on putting idiots on their front bench (Jess Phillips, David Lammy, Dawn Butler etc) perhaps they would be credible and electable. As it is, the Tories can do whatever they like.
Iggly · 29/07/2019 09:43
The problem with “Making Britain Great Again”, is that that harks back to a time when we had the British Empire. The British Empire certainly was not great - at a time when Europeans raided other countries because their own were insufficient to meet their needs... they then crushed local cultures etc....
And back at home, the peasants and workers doffed their caps to serve their rich masters.
Doesn’t sound all that great to me.
WhatisFreddoingnow · 29/07/2019 09:43
Contraception e.g the pill or sterilisation e.g hysterectomy can be used if there is a medical need and contraception is a by-product of the medical intervention.
Otherwise abstinence or natural family planning can be used to space children.
So not quite outrightly banned, no.
Everanewbie · 29/07/2019 10:03
OP. No one is obligated to 'like' someone or agree with their politics, and I understand that you have a dislike for BJ and JRM. However I disagree with many of the things you have said. Firstly around the legitimacy of TM and BJ. In the UK we do not elect a PM as the USA elect a president. We elect an MP in their constituencies. The leader of the largest party forms a government. There is no real reason to go back to the electorate when that leader changes. Presumably you felt that there should have been a new general election when Gordon Brown succeeded Tony Blair? Tories at the time did call for an election, I recall, so there is a bit of hypocrisy on both sides with this situation.
So, to BJ and JRM. I want the very best minds in the UK to be in top jobs, irrespective of their accent, wealth and school. In my opinion there are inequalities that make it easier to reach the top, but having the best people is more important to me than artificially skewing the balance of top jobs. I personally feel that BJ and JRM are in that bracket despite their obvious quirks. I don't agree with everything they say and do, especially BJs romantic indiscretions and the extent that JRM's faith often dictates his personal views (not necessarily his political objectives though). But I respect their obvious intelligence and competence.
I find it offensive that people feel able to personally attack a politician for who they are, how they speak and how they dress. Yes JRM is a bit of a throw back, and not to everyone's taste, but to attack who he is is as offensive to me as insulting Gordon Brown's speech impediment/mouth tick, or writing John Prescott off as thick because of his accent and working class roots.
BogglesGoggles · 29/07/2019 10:07
@WhatisFreddoingnow but in that case they do ban contraception. Allowing the use of products which have the side effect of infertility isn’t the same as permitting people to use these products with the intention of preventing pregnancy. Surely you don’t think that allowing followers to take chemotherapy equates to permitting contraceptives? The use of hormonal contraceptives to treat medical conditions is no different.
BogglesGoggles · 29/07/2019 10:08
*and it was meant as a light hearted quip - I do know that the church has a limited tolerance for contraception for contraception sake in some circumstances
Alsohuman · 29/07/2019 10:08
Never did I think when I was shouting at the radio in the 80s, that the day would dawn when the Thatcher government would look moderate. The cabinet members from those days who are still around are so measured, intelligent and sensible. If Major, Heseltine, Patten and Clarke were running the show, I could actually vote Tory - something I’d sooner have eaten my own liver than contemplated 30 years ago.
Boom25 · 29/07/2019 10:11
I have to agree with you. Jacob Rees Moggs is a foul aberration.
Boom25 · 29/07/2019 10:17
Imperial measurements? Double space after a full stop? Does he think it the fifties? What an out of touch loon.
Enclume · 29/07/2019 10:20
Quite like Moggy.
Janista · 29/07/2019 10:23
People have short memories. All those moaning about how moderate and lovely Majors government was....it was seen as authoritarian, censorious and very controlling at the time. Heseltine was in many ways feared and who can forget the Criminal Justice Act. To people on their 20s they seemed more aloof and out of reach and touch than JRM and Boris do today. The idea that any of the 90s old guard would ever have thought a Tory government would be one to legalise gay marriage would have been laughable.
The Tories are way more socially liberal, environmentally progressive and open to new ideas than the 90s Tory mob you are drooling over - who were also constantly at war with each other - ever were.
No deal Brexit is here, and these are exactly the people you’d want to lead this country through it.
Alsohuman · 29/07/2019 10:32
Try actually reading what was written before you start ranting @Janista. This cabinet is way, way, way further right than Thatcher’s government, no way would this lot put same sex marriage on the statute book. My memory is longer than most round here and, even in the 80s, I didn’t wake up anxious and fearful.
GazingIntoTheAbyss · 29/07/2019 10:32
I live abroad and people here think the UK has truly lost its marbles.
Janista · 29/07/2019 10:52
I live abroad and many hold the opposite view are positive about Brexit and just want the uk to complete Brexit as soon as possible.
Iggly · 29/07/2019 10:54
That was the previous Tory government. The idea that any of the 90s old guard would ever have thought a Tory government would be one to legalise gay marriage would have been laughable
That Tory government no longer exists.
Alsohuman · 29/07/2019 10:55
I’ve no doubt a lot of Europeans are positive about Brexit. We’re causing them endless trouble and sending fuckwits to Brussels to disrupt as much as possible. I imagine the rest of Europe can’t wait to see the back of us and I don’t blame them.
To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.