To think medicine isn't a great career choice

[Medicmog]

Growing up, I dreamed of being a doctor. I was bright and motivated, and worked hard at school, and did lots of volunteering, extra curricular activities, and work experience, to gain admission to medical school. It was encouraged by my school and parents, as something worthwhile to aspire to.

I worked hard to complete six years of medical school, while non-medical friends graduated after three or four years and walked into highly paid jobs (generally £40k+). Two or three extra years studying, and I started on little over half this (plus an antisocial hours allowance on some jobs). Fine, I never went into medicine for the money.

What I find difficult is that doctors (and moreover all public sector workers) are so vulnerable due to current politics, public confidence in the progression is at an all time low, bullying in the progression is rife, and it is such an absolutely thankless job, where your employer treats you appallingly.

I have been injured at work, due to my workplaces negligence, and they illegally docked my pay subsequently, despite my continued working. I have been sick, and had consultants say they don't care about occupational health recommendations.

I had a serious illness, and when I emailed work, together with a sick note, I was told that it would be a great inconvenience, and to get back as soon as possible.

I have felt unwell at work and told that I wasn't allowed to sit down.

I have been shouted at and bullied by colleagues.

I have been threatened by patients and relatives.

I have been pressured to do physical work while pregnant that endangered my health.

When I went on maternity leave I didn't get so much as an email wishing me well, let alone a card.

My children have suffered from the long antisocial hours, including the significant amount of unpaid overtime I have done.

I'm at breaking point, and genuinely dreading going back to work after maternity leave. Why would I want to leave my baby, in order to pay more for childcare than I earn, and be treated like shit?

I realise this is a self indulgent post, but in some ways it is cathartic to share. I wouldn't ever recommend someone to join this profession, and I think young people considering it should be given a balanced perspective.

If my DC show aptitude in science I will not encourage them to become doctors, for the reasons Op and many posters mention.

What are some STEM careers with reasonable pay and good conditions?

Your situation sounds difficult OP. Suggest taking care of your personal health and wellbeing as best you can, for example trying to minimise overtime, and exploring all your paid work options.

loopy from what I have seen STEM graduates generally do very well, if they have a degree from a well regarded university. In particular, computer science, engineering and maths graduates have very good employment prospects.

I’m a GP. I’m fucking exhausted and demoralised. I desperately hope my DC doesn’t want to follow in my footsteps

lost my Christmas spirit

"And in the meantime, endless threads criticising NHS staff.

This thread should make it clear why service is not always exactly as we would like it. Staff are overworked and underfunded, and often treated badly. That is why."
I do agree that we need more nurses on wards. I went to see an Endocrinologist at an Outpatient appointment recently. 1 nurse escorted me into a room where 2 other nurses were sat, 1 of whom told me to stand on the scales while the other recorded my weight. I was then escorted by the first nurse to a second waiting area where there were 4 seats. I waited 40 minutes to be seen. During this time, as the 4 seats were full with patients, the 3 nurses came out of the room and joined 2 others at the main reception desk and just chatted and fooled around.

In this situation the staff were totally under-utilised.

The NHS needs reorganisation. It is totally absurd to have staff shortages on wards yet have so many staff under-utilised in outpatient departments.

Also, I have tried to get a letter from a Vascular Consultant's Secretary for 6 weeks to no avail. At an appointment with a Consultant Nurse in the vascular dept, I commented on it and she sorted it out the very next day and I received the letter a couple of days later.

Some people are cut out for the job and some aren't.

So so glad I dropped the medical school idea when I moved here. Take my advice and move to Australia. Much more pleasant practicing over there.

@Loopytiles STEM degrees are sought after in consultancy. The pay isn’t as high as some fields but hours tend to be quite sociable for a professional job and it’s great preparation for starting your own business which loads of people do after a stint in a big firm. There is also the option to do the GDL and move into law. Alternatively, mining jobs pay really well for those willing to move to weird places.

Is there any profession out there where the majority of people doing it enjoy it? All I see is different professionals thinking they have it the worse - doctors, lawyers, teachers, social workers. Just wondering if anyone out there actually likes their job these days.

@SevenMelon did she actually make a mistake though? Sounds like an institutional failure to me.

@gearandloathing I know lots of lawyers, financial types and consultants that love their jobs but they get paid reasonable remuneration and are well supported by their employers for unlike most doctors and teachers. Obviously all professional work is hard but it becomes unbearable when the work you do isn’t even appreciated

Personally if my child is high performing in STEM subjects I’ll encourage mechanical engineering- because one things for certain, we’ll always need humans to design and create the robots.

I’m an accountant and have to say I quite like it, or rather consider myself fortunate. My profession is well paid, my job isn’t dirty or physical, no anti social hours and you’re fairly well protected from monumental mistakes. As I say it blows my mind that I earn twice what a SHO does, considering how unimportant my role is in society vs theirs, and how they’re the cream of the academic crop and I don’t have a C in GCSE maths, got a BCD at level and a 2;1 from an ex poly blasted my professional exams though

pass the cherry Coke it's good to hear you like accounting. The accountants I know seem very happy with their jobs. Maybe it's an option for me to look at. I like that it has on the job training.

Honestly it’d be a piece of cake for you Medicmog. It’s not even hard. DON’T TELL ANYONE

Thank you for the positivity. I loved Maths at school so I think I might enjoy it. I'm not sure how to choose for certain which path to go down though, a careers advisor is probably a very good suggestion.

Always a good idea to call a halt we’ll before you can’t remember which patient has a DNR.

The fact that you even think that the Paeds reg covering the work of two people in a busy hospital would have the option of "calling a halt" to her day suggests you don't know much about the realities of life for junior doctors. Dr BG's conviction was an absolute disgrace, for all the reasons outlined by Seven above.

sooty I find your post rather unpleasant. No one has argued that doctors should not be held up to high professional standards, or asked for any special pleading.

No one ever has the option to walk away. If she had, she would have faced disciplinary action, and children would have been at greater risk, as the most senior doctor in the pediatric speciality would have been an SHO.

The fact that you think she had an option to walk away shows how little knowledge you have of the NHS.

Doctors often need to cover their own sick leave, so the notion that she could have 'walked away' because she felt that the working conditions are unsafe is absurd.

Since the average graduate from my university earns £37k, I don't think that my expectations regarding private sector salary are unrealistic in any way, regardless of your unpleasant comments.

The point, Sooty, is that if Dr. BG's behaviour was 'sufficiently appalling' to justify a criminal conviction, then I and every other junior doctor I ever worked with should probably be in jail. The specific examples the judge cited - a delay of an hour or two in reviewing the child's x-ray, for example - are absolutely par for the course in a busy A&E department. I found it really frightening that an experienced judge could be so out of touch with what is normal working practice within the health service. Ditto that he could feel that the fact that 'someone' gave the child medication on the ward without checking with staff could somehow be the fault of the paediatric registrar. It shows a mind-boggling ignorance of the actual workings of a hospital.

Just wanted to send love to you OP. I was in the fortunate position of loving my specialty training. It was hard work but I loved my specialty and really enjoyed training. Now I’m a consultant. The money isn’t great. The abuse you get is awful and now I’m so sub specialised I’m stuck in my job because I’m completely deskilled in everything else. I would rather do anything but this. Anything. I’m stuck.
You’re still young enough to get out. Do it. It doesn’t get any better.

Also to bear in mind that Dr BG is to be allowed to resume clinical practise following a period of suspension.

There are so many articles giving the details of the case, so I won't repeat these, but I think it is appropriate to say that there were systemic failings, and that she was not the only individual who made an errors.

A consequence of her case that doctors no longer are able to reflect on clinical cases, as her reflections were used in the clinical case. This is not helpful for patient safety.

Would love to hear from those who said they retrained in other jobs after being a Dr. What did you change to? How?

Thank you downbeat for the message of support, and sorry to hear you are having a bad time.

I thought I would love speciality training but it has been so much worse than I expected. Training opportunities are virtually none: it's all about service provision.

Likewise downbeat. Any inspiration would be welcome.

All I can think of as possible options(with the help of this thread):
Consultancy
Pharmaceutical
Accountancy

Medic, I don't know what your specialty is but just to give you some ideas, I have friends who've gone from GP training into (1) pharmaceutical companies, as medical advisors (2) private health insurance companies doing heath screenings (mindless but low-stress) (3) health insurance companies offering 'hospital in the home' services (e.g. they'll do IV abx at home so patients can leave hospital sooner, that sort of thing) (4) medication licensing and guidance. Some are clinical, some non but all are, I would guess, significantly less stressful than hospital medicine.

@SootySueandSweeptoo - do you think there is any onus on employers ensuring that staff know that they should walk away in cases where they feel it is unsafe? Perhaps despite all the mandatory training about moving and handling, we should get training on how to hand in your bleep if you feel it is unsafe... or inform your senior colleagues - like Chris Day?

Public should campaign for minimum staffing.

@Salacia - these are exactly the reasons I’m leaving. I have an anxious personality which makes a lot of things worse - so probably isn’t a good fit for medicine. Going into IT (look around - occasional jobs offer full training - but do preparation and hobby coding etc).