My stupid Fucking Father

[Itcouldbeyou]

Hi I have NC as this could be outing and please be gentle with me
I’m wondering if any of you lovely people have any advice apologies as this is long
My father 72 I would say a vulnerable person who is naive and gullible and carer to my mother who has Alzheimer’s and Dementia was contacted by phone last year by the National Lottery Centre asking him if he wanted to join a syndicate for the Irish Lottery
He very stupidly agreed and paid £700 for the year
Every two weeks or so he was then contacted by an account manager asking him if he wanted to join more syndicates for varying amounts of money
When he said he couldn’t afford it they would do a pre authorisation or a smaller amount to see what he could afford. Then they would ring back and ask to take that amount
. I believe that this phone call was recorded but the actual hard sell call wasn’t recorded . Over a period of a year he has used his life savings of around £25000 maybe more
Completely all gone from his account

While I accept that he has been the most stupid person ever and I want to kill him 😂 he is my father and murder isn’t legal so I’m stuck with him .
To be honest I am more annoyed at his bank Lloyds who never once queried these payments
My father has banked with Lloyd’s for 50 years and has never not once made any payments like this to anyone .

The only payment they have ever queried and refused to pay was his car insurance that legitimate and they stopped the payment and he had to go into the bank to authorise this payment and this was a few years ago .
So why on earth did they not stop or query any of these payments
From what I have read the banks have sophisticated fraud systems set up to alert them to unusual payments so did they not think that someone spending 2000 plus in one go every month a bit unusual

I’m asking because whenever I buy or do something that’s not within my spending pattern my card is stopped and I get a call or a text asking me if I have authorised this payment .
I couldn’t even use my card when on holiday recently as it was out of my usual spending pattern
On occasions stuff from Amazon has been cancelled because of the fraud alert
When googling them The

Lottery Centre is based in the Isle of Man and other elderly people have had exactly the same thing happen cold call and then regular amounts taken
I can’t call it a scam as he authorised the payments but like the others he was elderly and was pressured by hard sell to do so and is also a fucking idiot

However it’s the bank that I’m really annoyed with
Any advice on if I am able to complain to the bank about their lack prevention of unusual transactions on an account would be much appreciated

In some way you can get these people done! As your father is a vulnerable man at his age! First I would contact Lloyd's fraud team, then contact Martin Lewis who knows a lot about this kind of stuff! I would advise not to let this go. Contact the people who took the money off him! Go to citizens advice.. I think if you push he will receive some or all money's back!
This happens a lot to pensioners if it's not that it's fake charity workers! Stay strong good look

Report it to Action Fraud

Report to local or National newspaper they may help get money back

Get power of attorney

The banks should certainly be taking more responsibility in this area. Financial scamming is well-known in the older age group. Surely it wouldn't be hard for , say, all accounts held by people over 65 to be flagged if the person spends or transfers more than £500 or whatever. The person ( or their relative) to be notified each time, and asked if they genuinely want to spend that amount.

I've been contacted by my bank when an "unusual" amount has been put on my credit card ,and I've been grateful that they are on the ball. I'm sure older people and their families would also be grateful if the person is being scammed and the bank picked up on it.

This is the only time i will say this, but i hope The Daily Mail are reading this. I think the National Press need to report this. I would go to The Police about this, they have targeted an elderly vulnerable man. The Gambling Commission may be able to advise.

I hope the Bank fraud team investigate. Please keep pursuing it through them. Try Martin Lewis as well. Your poor dad.

all accounts held by people over 65 to be flagged if the person spends or transfers more than £500 Are you serious? Can you imagine how fucked off and inconvenienced you'd be if every transaction got blocked just because you are in your 60s. It's discriminatory. Being over 60 does not in itself make you a vulnerable customer. My dad is still running a successful business at that age, he wouldn't be able to operate if they blocked his account for every transaction of a few hundred pounds.

mathanxiety I have no idea what the company did with the money but the father gambled it which makes it very very difficult to get it bank from the bank/ FOS. I really hope that the OP gets her money back but people here are suggesting it's a done deal that she will get her money straight back from the bank and it is not. Looks from a pp that someone got their money back via the gambling commission so i would certainly be taking it up with them as well.

Try the financial ombudsman. Sorry, haven’t any contact details, but I’m sure others have or get from Internet.
My credit card was pinched (and number.....I can recall a chap standing uncomfortably close, in hindsight) a couple of weeks ago. Chap immediately beetles off to Thomas Cook and spent about £480, but I thought he’d bought flight/holiday tickets......shows my naievity in that (of course, once you know) they’d taken out cash, in euro. I’m still v v cross with credit card company as we have never ever taken out cash on a credit card (a fool to ever even think about it) and certainly not foreign cash. But they allowed through several thousands of £ in cash for about 3 days, until our card was rejected and we had to look into it, and discovered the fraud. We’ve been repaid, thank heavens. But why didn’t credit card company query the first transaction?
Very sad for you/your father. Hope you get something back. And contact ‘Moneybox’ on Radio 4. I’m sure they would help.

Citizens advice bureau will be familiar so starry there and log with the police who will also be familiar. Also advise the bank ( probably your father has to do this so maybe you draft a letter for him to sign and you deliver) put them on notice that you are reviewing the options with regard to taking action against any relevant parties

Similar happened to DH,he thought he was buying a lottery ticket online but it was a dodgy copy website. He ended up blissfully unaware they were taking money, it ended up being £700 (not as much as your DF but a lot to us).
NatWest argued that it wasn't covered by fraud protection, but I went to the Ombudsman, and they told NatWest to sort out a Chargeback. The company then had 28 days to argue it- surprise surprise when I emailed their complaints department and mentioned Action Fraud, they didn't argue it.
I think knowing your father is vulnerable, and has been conned, if his bank won't help, I would go to the Ombudsman and explain what has happened, get some form of proof of your father's health issues, and that the bank failed to spot an obvious fraud. They may help get some compensation, but unless they can find the bank account ( and some of these companies are clever and use multiple accounts which they close down regularly) then it may be impossible to sort a chargeback or refund.

Are you 100% sure this call was from the National Lottery - as I thought they weren’t allowed to contact anyone due to gambling laws and cohesion.

I would first speak to this lottery company to:

1. Find out if legit.

Ask for his money to be returned due to his age and vulnerability- threaten media involvement

1. Speak to your fathers bank (with him present otherwise they will refuse to talk to you without his permission) And ask why they didn’t question large amounts going out of a pensioners account.
2. Contact your local MP and ask for help
3. Contact BBC 3CR Jonathan Vernon Smith and ask for his help.

Good luck

Having worked in media relations in Banking for many years I can tell you the louder you scream and the more media outlets you threaten them with the more likely they will assist you - they don’t want the bad rep

My Nana had schizophrenia and we were able to get every penny back in a similar situation when she was 65. Keep pushing the bank and they will take responsibility. He's obviously vulnerable and the bank have failed to protect him.

Are you more upset that your father was scammed or that there is no inheritance left for you because honestly, the way you go on, it seems the latter.

First of all, your father is not stupid so stop calling him that. He's been scammed, millions fall victim to it every day, that doesn't make him a stupid idiot.

Secondly, he can spend HIS money on exactly what he wants to.

Third, go take your argument to the bank, not your father. Their fraud system is obviously fucked up if they are stopping your amazon purchases but allowing your father to send 2 grand a month to the Isle of Man!

Lastly, take the bloody phone out of your parents' house and give them a mobile, or ask their phone line provider for a new number due to scams and have it set up so that only certain people (family/friends) with a specific code number can dial them. And yes, this CAN be done as a family friend of mine has her number set so that calls will only come through if an access code is dialed before the regular phone number.

I'd definitely call it a scam, your dad is a vulnerable person and they have conned him out of a lot of money. The company is set up in an area outside our legal system that's not accidental. I'm sure your poor father feels so bad about this and you're understandably furious but he was hoodwinked. I think the bank should take some responsibility.

A very similar thing happened to my father only in his case it was the Nationwide. They were absolutely useless - he went in on two separate occasions and made two large payments to the US having fallen victim to a scam. It was totally out of his normal spending pattern and all but wiping out his life savings. The second time he went in, the same cashier was on and she felt 'uncomfortable' about it but rather than referring to a Manager who might have had half a clue - she just passed it on to a more junior member than herself. Ombudsman is a waste of time as they are funded by the banks themselves anyway so rarely find them culpable.

Just to reiterate what other PP's have said, whilst you dad has authorised these payments this is a police matter so I would definitely report it to them and action fraud too.

Even if this is a legitimate lottery (which I doubt - has he ever won anything on it?) they should not be pressuring him for more and more money. It is an offence and very similar to a rogue trader offence where rip off builders over inflate prices for elderly/vulnerable people. They still do the work and the payment to them is authorised but it is still considered a criminal offence.

And then yes, get onto the bank - especially if you can prove they are aware of this lottery company and their antics.

It is worth looking up other common scams and talking them through with you dad so he is wise in case he gets targeted again. And I agree about the phone blocking service too. My grandparents have it and it asks who is calling so they can decide whether to accept of decline the call so now they only answer to family and friends.

Of course the call wasn't from the Irish National Lottery, fib88.
No legit national lottery contacts individuals.

The call came from the so-called National Lottery Centre, HQ in the Isle of Man which is a well known home of dodgy financial operations, asking if her dad wanted to join a lottery syndicate.

The bank should have immediately flagged money heading to the IOM.

YYY to getting the phone blocking service in place.

OP you have got great advice and I've learned a lot by your post. Dont mind anyone saying you shouldn't refer to your dad in those terms. We ADORE our elderly dad and sometimes lovingly refer to him as that awful f***g eejit. It is 100% a term of endearment. Thanks for posting. Let us know how it goes.

The thing that stands out to me is although he may have authorised the payments , he was Targeted - so they knew he was vunerable in some way and likely to agree.

I hope you get the correct advice about how to get the money back and then somehow get the message out to others to look out for this particularly nasty approach .

^They queried one payment of 900 for his car insurance and refused to pay it one year and made him go into the bank to verify the payment
So I’m just really shocked that they allowed payments of over double that amount to leave his account month after month without a single check^

Quite. For the posters who say banks don’t have time to check payments, that’s not true.

I have had countless unfamiliar payments for far less than your father’s stopped while ccc or bank contacted me to be sure it was genuine, even tho I had personally authorised the payments.

Barclays notified my mother of fraud on my card and advised her her card must have been cloned or stolen purely on the pattern of payments rather than it being a amount.

Lloyd’s should have twigged that your father is old and he may have been conned into agreeing the payments.

Some banks and cccs have good surveillance of customer accounts. Lloyd’s clearly don’t.

The thing that stands out to me is although he may have authorised the payments , he was Targeted - so they knew he was vunerable in some way and likely to agree.

I’ve had authorised payments questioned many times, they ring to check you really have authorised it.

I work in financial services compliance. There was new FCA draft guidance published last week on vulnerable customers, but beware this is still only draft guidance not rules. The gist of this is firms ie banks in this situation need to prevent harm to their customers.
The bank could dig their heels in and say your dad authorised this and there was no circumstances to suggest he was vulnerable - let’s face it none of us announce ourselves by saying hello I’m a vulnerable customer, but do still complain, do tell then you’ll take it to the ombudsman if you don’t get a fair outcome and tell them you’re aware of the big regulatory focus on vulnerable customers (completely true). Good luck!

Contact Money Saving Expert. They know all about these scams and they may be able to help him get his money back or at the very least give him some advice. Martin Lewis runs the company and he's very good. They have a link to a news story so that might be the first option to try and see if he picks this up.

I really hope you manage to get somebody to listen to you about this.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/site/site-contacts/?utm_expid=.zxkDT7LKTBWW5KunzZoWEw.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.moneysavingexpert.com%2F

You have my sympathies.
My dad had life savings of over 60,000
Its all gone to scammers. It's like whack a mole. You see off one lot and another one pops up.
He is now penniless, has had to borrow money from my brother to pay off his credit card bill, and is living month to month on his pension
Tbh I'm relieved. At least they cant take anymore. (we have cut up the credit card)
Dad was always relatively street smart, but today's scammers use technologies he doesn't understand and so he can't see the edges of it. If he came across someone playing 3 card monty in the street, he would know it was a scam, but when someone calls him and says they are from his internet service provider, he assumes it is legit, no matter how many times we tell him to check
It is awful, and I do think that banks need to be much more proactive when it comes to looking after accounts belonging to elderly and vulnerable people

Cant see how it's the banks fault when your father authorised the transactions. And who calls their 72 year old father "my stupid fucking father " and an idiot. Seriously harsh.