My stupid Fucking Father

[Itcouldbeyou]

Hi I have NC as this could be outing and please be gentle with me
I’m wondering if any of you lovely people have any advice apologies as this is long
My father 72 I would say a vulnerable person who is naive and gullible and carer to my mother who has Alzheimer’s and Dementia was contacted by phone last year by the National Lottery Centre asking him if he wanted to join a syndicate for the Irish Lottery
He very stupidly agreed and paid £700 for the year
Every two weeks or so he was then contacted by an account manager asking him if he wanted to join more syndicates for varying amounts of money
When he said he couldn’t afford it they would do a pre authorisation or a smaller amount to see what he could afford. Then they would ring back and ask to take that amount
. I believe that this phone call was recorded but the actual hard sell call wasn’t recorded . Over a period of a year he has used his life savings of around £25000 maybe more
Completely all gone from his account

While I accept that he has been the most stupid person ever and I want to kill him 😂 he is my father and murder isn’t legal so I’m stuck with him .
To be honest I am more annoyed at his bank Lloyds who never once queried these payments
My father has banked with Lloyd’s for 50 years and has never not once made any payments like this to anyone .

The only payment they have ever queried and refused to pay was his car insurance that legitimate and they stopped the payment and he had to go into the bank to authorise this payment and this was a few years ago .
So why on earth did they not stop or query any of these payments
From what I have read the banks have sophisticated fraud systems set up to alert them to unusual payments so did they not think that someone spending 2000 plus in one go every month a bit unusual

I’m asking because whenever I buy or do something that’s not within my spending pattern my card is stopped and I get a call or a text asking me if I have authorised this payment .
I couldn’t even use my card when on holiday recently as it was out of my usual spending pattern
On occasions stuff from Amazon has been cancelled because of the fraud alert
When googling them The

Lottery Centre is based in the Isle of Man and other elderly people have had exactly the same thing happen cold call and then regular amounts taken
I can’t call it a scam as he authorised the payments but like the others he was elderly and was pressured by hard sell to do so and is also a fucking idiot

However it’s the bank that I’m really annoyed with
Any advice on if I am able to complain to the bank about their lack prevention of unusual transactions on an account would be much appreciated

What irony ! You have asked people to be gentle with you but perhaps you could show a bit of gentleness and respect to your father instead of coming on a public forum to speak of him in such disgusting terms !

My Aunt who when I mentioned years ago that I occasionally played the National Lottery replied she did not believe in gambling, now plays the Irish lottery, an American one, an Australian one.... So many scams. I have explained that they got her address from a pill company she sends £££ to to get boxes and boxes and boxes of pills (which she could get well enough from Boots) but she won't listen. When I stay with her - all I hear is the phone ring all day from the pill companies. She is not allowed a card (bank manager put his foot down after we went in there with her to explain the situation) and she giggles over the phone to these companies when her cheques bounce. For a while she won't answer the phone (mainly the family- but still answers these other numbers!). She is not on internet (thank f*ck for that) but is sent scads of shite thru the main.

She has it all over the place. I went through it and found proper mail (like the threat to take her to court over unpain council tax etc etc!). I keep saying put the scam shite on one pile - you can recognise it by the fact it comes from Prague/ USA/Australia/ Brunei etc etc and sort out the proper post first.

She won't let us 'interfere' so no chance of being in control of her finances etc etc. I just feel sorry that someone that was once intelligent and had squirreled away a lot of money in shares and stuff has now got not much at all.

I hope you don't feel I'm being very critical OP... It's great that you are helping so much. However if your father is otherwise competent then I think you need to take a deep breath and think about what he needs. Taking control over everything is treating him like he is incapable. He will most likely already be very embarrassed and feeling foolish. Fraud happens to many people. You say you have tried to show him that it happens to many. Yet you are reacting like it has happened because he was stupid/at fault.

It might not be very helpful for your father to feel like he is loosing control of his life. I understand your actions come from a good place but I wonder if your father night feel a bit managed at the moment.

He might find it helpful to talk to Age Concern or Victim Support. They will provide support and help him hold on to his dignity. Because the loss of self esteem will hit as hard as the financial impact.

I would be very cross if one of my parents had done the same. In fact one of my parents did let her/himself be duped. They were a Director at a block of owner-occupied accommodation and a Manager asked them to do something that was clearly improper and which involved siphoning off money. My parent, rather than smelling a rat/asking questions/checking it out and enabled fraudulent activity to happen for a prolonged period. It's the same way that we get cross with our children sometimes when they do silly stupid things. It's because we care and find their vulnerability quite terrifying.

Flapjackfairy
I’m obviously very upset that my father has had this happen
I have not voiced my thoughts to him and I have been nothing but supportive to him
I’m just venting because obviously I would not say this to him even if I do think he has been silly and stupid but I’m also accepting that he is not the only one this has happened to and he won’t be the last
I’m frustrated devastated and angry but he is my father and I will always do my best by him even if he drives me to copious amount of wine

Even if the bank had stopped the payment though and contacted your dad he would have confirmed that the payment was genuine. He authorised this payment. I don't think it's the bank you should be angry at, it's the company that pressured him to spend this money. I think you would have much more success in retrieving the money by complaining to them that he was pressured and is a vulnerable customer. The bank could investigate if the payments were fraudulent but you say they were not.

@Itcouldbeyou PLEASE report this to the Police.

It's very difficult for banks because they cannot deem someone a vulnerable person without some kind of evidence. Can you imagine the headlines the other way where someone completely competent was prevented from investing their money just because of their age? I know this because a relative is high up in a bank and can see both sides but it's not as clearcut as you might think. I would imagine they could potentially be sued for this.

I would, however, approach the bank though to see if you could recover the money.

Exactly Cccameron.

Gotthefaceon
Not at all I’m open to all comments and I know they are coming from a good place
The Age Concern Victim Support is a good thing and I will suggest that to him
I’ve just gone through his accounts with him to make sure that there are no other large payments going out which thankfully there aren’t
He is happy with me doing this and I told him it would only be while we are trying to sort this out and only a once a month thing so not every day
I’ve told him I’m bothered about what he’s spending his money on so not looking at the account transactions I’m just checking what goes In and out of the account so the balance matches if that makes sense

I’m just quicker with doing admin stuff than he is 😂
He was trying to get his virgin bill reduced and they were really pressuring him to stay and I could see he was wavering so I said do you want me to deal with it
He says yes and within minutes I got it from. £123 a month to £49 but I’m sure if I hadn’t done that he would still be paying the same amount

THE FUCKING STUPID BANK!!

You're foul-mouthing the bank, the OP is foul-mouthing, albeit in frustration, her father, no-one seems to be blaming the con-artists.

Maybe people need to realise that there may be the need, especially where a person is vulnerable, to take a POA over their affairs.

Action Fraud are largely concerned with Cyber crime, but I believe they are also interested in telephone scams etc, might be worth a look at their website and see? Also as others have said the fraud department at the bank. Sorry your dad has been through this, calls are often very persuasive and it's easy to see how people get sucked in. My dad receives more scam calls as he has gotten older, I wonder if they target from certain sets of data eg age.

Sorry, pressed too soon.

On diagnosis, their bank should be able to flag the account and any payment over a certain, agreed, amount would queried with the holder of the POA and the customer.

My mum was conned out of a huge amount of money, (we don’t know how much but sixty thousand pounds is the bare minimum) by callers sending her toiletries and rubbish jewellery. She was in the very early stages of dementia and a carer for my sick father. We did not get any of the money back, as the firms were overseas. She was getting stacks ( literally stacks) of scamming post too. We then got POA and so could see everything she was buying, put a block on the ‘phone, and blocked as much of the mail as we could. It has been so upsetting to think that the money she and my Dad had worked hard for was stolen when she was a frail and trusting old lady.
The people who do this deliberately target the elderly and vulnerable. Evil. So sorry OP, it does sound that you have grounds to claim this money back. That money expert from This Morning is on twitter, you could ask his advice there ?

You keep on saying it's not a scam but actually it is a scam. This is what scams are.

You need to go straight to your dad's local police, to your MP and to www.iompolice.im/footer/corporate/economic-crime-unit/ the IOM Economic Crime Unit of the IOM Police.

You need to go to Lloyds too.

You need to look into establishing durable power of attorney for your mum and dad.

My 80 year old mum got stung for £280 sky scam she was with tsb complain got nothing .tried again full refund. The woman in fraud depart said the company was a regular knew all about them already.

He's probably very grateful that you are doing so much. Realistically he is unlikely to seek help but sometimes talking to someone not involved can be a relief. Not unlike your process of venting on here!

You can report online on ActionFraud.

I would say to go after the lottery people who actually scammed him, not Lloyds. If the payments were within certain limits & not unusual then I cant see what Lloyds have done wrong. First things first I would get a print out of all the transactions as it seems a lot to have been taken by 1 organisation over a year.

I think your anger at the bank is entirely misplaced.

It’s not an app scam - he won’t be refunded as the victim of a scam as he was (I assume) provided the service/product he paid for.

Banks have lots of new rules in place regarding vulnerable customers - the support you must provide, how to approach them etc...but it doesn’t mean they’ll refund huge amounts of money when there’s no actual bank fault.

Fraud checks are in place as an attempted preventative measure and not a fail safe guarantee or insurance policy...and besides this, there’s no actual fraud...just ‘poor’ choices made by an elderly person.

If you complain to the bank don’t waste your time with the branch manager/CEO - your complaint will get handled in the same way, by the same centralised complaints team regardless of who you raise it with.

Try Martin Lewis, the money expert who features on This Morning, he is very good and genuinely seems to care about people being ripped off.

mathanxiety
Thank you for that link
I know in my head it’s a scam but I keep thinking because he authorised the payments albeit under pressure it’s not a scam
But I have realised from the posts on here that it is a scam and that’s how I’m going to deal with it from now on
It’s a slow process of taking it all in

Lloyds have just paid out five million to Noel Edmonds, maybe drop him a line on twitter as well.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7291337/Deal-Noel-Edmonds-wins-5million-Lloyds-claims-criminal-bankers-destroyed-business.html

I get pretty cross when people say 'Why didn't the bank stop him' - it's his money, he authorised the payment and yes he's an idiot but it's on him. If you really believe he is not totally to blame then you need to have power of attorney because he is in no position to look after himself or your mother

Just pulled this up from the genuine irish lottery.

What to do if you are targeted
If you receive a message from a scammer, then you are advised not to respond. You should not disclose any personal or financial information, and never send any money. If you receive a suspicious email, you should not open any links it contains.

You can report scams to the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission. The contact number for queries between 9am and 6pm on Mondays to Fridays is (01) 402 5555.

If you have already responded to someone you suspect is a scammer, or sent money, you should inform your bank and the police immediately.

Firstly, I'm very sorry to hear about your father, OP. I also empathise hugely with your frustration and distress. I work in financial services and my colleagues and I undergo rigorous training every year to enable us to identify, protect and support vulnerable customers. Due to his age and circumstances, your father should definitely have been flagged as vulnerable by his bank, as per the Financial Conduct Authority's definiton:

‘Someone who, due to their personal circumstances, is especially susceptible to detriment, particularly when a firm is not acting with appropriate levels of care’.

I think you have reasonable cause to raise this situation as a formal complaint with your father's bank. You can either contact the bank and ask to be put through to their complaints department to do this or call in to the nearest branch. You will probably need your father to be present when you do this.

FYI the fair treatment and protection of vulnerable customers is one of the key priorities of the FCA, so the bank should take this very seriously. They have to respond to your complaint within a specific time frame and if you aren't happy with the outcome, you can then refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

You may find this publication helpful:

www.fca.org.uk/publication/guidance-consultation/gc19-03.pdf

Good luck, OP. I hope you and your father get this resolved.