My stupid Fucking Father

[Itcouldbeyou]

Hi I have NC as this could be outing and please be gentle with me
I’m wondering if any of you lovely people have any advice apologies as this is long
My father 72 I would say a vulnerable person who is naive and gullible and carer to my mother who has Alzheimer’s and Dementia was contacted by phone last year by the National Lottery Centre asking him if he wanted to join a syndicate for the Irish Lottery
He very stupidly agreed and paid £700 for the year
Every two weeks or so he was then contacted by an account manager asking him if he wanted to join more syndicates for varying amounts of money
When he said he couldn’t afford it they would do a pre authorisation or a smaller amount to see what he could afford. Then they would ring back and ask to take that amount
. I believe that this phone call was recorded but the actual hard sell call wasn’t recorded . Over a period of a year he has used his life savings of around £25000 maybe more
Completely all gone from his account

While I accept that he has been the most stupid person ever and I want to kill him 😂 he is my father and murder isn’t legal so I’m stuck with him .
To be honest I am more annoyed at his bank Lloyds who never once queried these payments
My father has banked with Lloyd’s for 50 years and has never not once made any payments like this to anyone .

The only payment they have ever queried and refused to pay was his car insurance that legitimate and they stopped the payment and he had to go into the bank to authorise this payment and this was a few years ago .
So why on earth did they not stop or query any of these payments
From what I have read the banks have sophisticated fraud systems set up to alert them to unusual payments so did they not think that someone spending 2000 plus in one go every month a bit unusual

I’m asking because whenever I buy or do something that’s not within my spending pattern my card is stopped and I get a call or a text asking me if I have authorised this payment .
I couldn’t even use my card when on holiday recently as it was out of my usual spending pattern
On occasions stuff from Amazon has been cancelled because of the fraud alert
When googling them The

Lottery Centre is based in the Isle of Man and other elderly people have had exactly the same thing happen cold call and then regular amounts taken
I can’t call it a scam as he authorised the payments but like the others he was elderly and was pressured by hard sell to do so and is also a fucking idiot

However it’s the bank that I’m really annoyed with
Any advice on if I am able to complain to the bank about their lack prevention of unusual transactions on an account would be much appreciated

@Itcouldbeyou can I just 2nd getting in touch with the CEO? I had a massive issue with Lloyds overdraft charges and made a complaint to this email - [email protected] who was the CEO however this could of changed?

I did receive a phone call almost instantly though.

I worked in banking fraud and complaints for years.

Call Lloyd's customer service, explain your father is a vulnerable adult and has received no goods or services from these fraudsters.

Ask them to do a direct debit indemnity claim for every payment that has ever gone out and ask them to block all further payments to the company.

He'll get his money back.

Then lodge a formal complaint and ask for a written response from the them (that means its logged by the FCA regardless of whether the outcome is acceptable to you or not.

Please do this ASAP. Pm me if you need further advice or assistance

Key drivers of vulnerability and examples, from the FCA publication 'Guidance for Firms On the Fair Treatment of Vulnerable Customers':

These categories are not definitive or exhaustive. But they do help us understand the situations, both permanent and transient, that can indicate potential vulnerability in financial services.

The four key drivers of vulnerability (the examples included are not
an exhaustive list):

Health
Physical disability; severe or long-term illness; hearing or visual impairments; poor mental health; low mental capacity or cognitive disabilities.

Life Events
Caring responsibilities; bereavement; income shock; relationship breakdown; having non-standard requirements such as ex-offenders, care leavers, refugees.

Resilience
Low or erratic income; over indebtedness; low savings; low emotional resilience; lack of support structure.

Capability
Low knowledge or confidence in managing financial matters; poor literacy or numeracy skills; low English language skills; poor or non-existent digital skills; learning impairments.

Half of UK adults (25.6 million people) display one or more characteristics of being potentially vulnerable (Financial Lives Survey 2017). This means they may be more susceptible to becoming vulnerable than others.

Some groups are more likely to be vulnerable than others, such as those under 24 or over 65, unemployed people, and those with no formal qualifications. And consumers will often display more than one characteristic of vulnerability.

Spot on @Marshmallow91

Excellent advice!

If he was so daft as to not know what he was doing someone should really should have not be dealing with finances. But you are saying he is a carer and no doubt has POA over his wife's affairs.
If he is unable to be sensible, I am wondering if the whole arrangement should be reconsidered. He is actually gambling away their joint monies.
Re- this blaming of the bank. Now you have to look at this completely logically and at the moment you are in a knee jerk situation trying to regain monies he has fruitlessly and foolishly spent. He has gambled and you need to ask why he has done this.
The payments were NOT irregular were they? He paid regularly!
So on what grounds can you blame the bank?
Some things in life are unbearable but have to be borne. I am sorry that you have lost your inheritance and their safety net but shit happens. He may be a carer but what he has done is neither careful not caring and puts your mother at risk. You need to ask whether he is a responsible person to be a carer.
My parents have too done daft things with money... some people prey on the elderly are criminals I am afraid.
You would be better getting legal advice if anything but I think they will say what I have.

Marshmallow Thank you. I will be doing this on Monday

Call Lloyd's customer service, explain your father is a vulnerable adult and has received no goods or services from these fraudsters

The problem is that the money has been gambled. From what I can remember from working in bank fraud any claims for refunds of money that was gambled are instant declines. And this was also the stance of the Ombudsman.

I would be complaining direct to the company and also to the gambling commission.

OP just wanted to add my commiserations, what bastards these people are. IMHO the banks DO have a responsibilty to protect their customers' money and if this company are known scammers why the hell hasn't more been done to stop them?

Let us know how you get on, I really hope you can get some of the money back at least. Complain, complain, complain and don't give up. xxx

cccameron is correct
The service was provided; the money was gambled!

Fun mGuy
He doesn't have POA over mums affairs sadly
Her money is in her account and the first thing I checked was her money ( not lots of it was safe )
I wasn’t banking on any inheritance
I’m financially secure to not be bothered about inheriting anything from my parents
I am going to complain not just to the bank but to the company and the other places that have been suggested
He or my mother won’t suffer financially as they have supportive family to help them

I’m just sad that this has happened to my father as at heart he is a good person who wouldn’t hurt a fly

Does anyone know if you have to have Power of Attorney to tell the bank that someone is vulnerable? My parents would be deemed to have capacity but my father has Parkinsons which leads to compulsive behaviour (in his case spending) and my mother is very keen on internet shopping and puts her credit card details in to random sites with goods not arriving or not being suitable.

Funguy your advice contradicts what others have said, including those with professional experience in this field. You sound like you work for the Lottery Centre actually.

Good luck OP & keep going with it, dont give up

You dont have to have POA to tell the bank something Penelope. You would need POA for them to discuss anything with you. If you notify them in writing and suggest they keep an eye on his account as a vulnerable person then it may do some good.

On that subject, OP I think you should talk to your dad about setting up a financial POA for you. Not for you to take over now, just for "one day" if needed.

Penelopepeace
Some banks you can arrange for them not to authorise any online or over the phone payments via the app so they can only use the card if they are in a shop or cashpoint

See what I’m learning 😂 bit late for my father but if it helps one other person.

I won’t give up it will be my bloody project for however long it takes

BarbarianMum
That’s on my list Of things to see about
At the moment through Experian and he’s happy for me to check with him each month I’m happy with that
I’ve given my dad a project to write out every single transaction they took and the month then I can work out exactly what he has lost

Were a close family so he won’t suffer financially I’m just angry that I didn’t notice anything
But honestly nothing has changed visibly for me to pick up on

I became suspicious when he mentioned the TV licence cost and having to pay it next year and I jokingly said well what are you worried about you have loads of money
And that’s when it all came out

I'm unsure of the policies of all financial services providers, @Penelopepeace, but the best thing you can do is to call your parents' bank or building society and ask to be put through to the Vulnerable Customers Team (all banks and building societies should have one) and they will be able to provide the appropriate guidance.

Please don't beat yourself up @Itcouldbeyou. This situation is not your fault and you're being a fantastically supportive daughter.

Stories like this make my blood boil!

@Funguy it is not a question of people being daft these scammers are very clever and sound very plausible that is why it is such a widespread thing. I work in retail and sadly we get a lot of people trying to buy hundreds of pounds worth of iTunes vouchers to supposedly restore phone or internet services or pay some other bill with. Then look at how many people fall far phishing exercises. Tesco is not going to give everybody who shares a post on facebook a £50 voucher but it doesn't stop hundreds of thousands sharing it. Or the we couldn't sell this holiday so share this post and we will pick a winner.

this is appalling.... I hope you get something back OP.

I'm so sorry that you and he are going through this.

As well as trying all the avenues suggested, I would strongly recommend that you set up a Lasting Power of Attorney (or, rather 2 - one for welfare and one for finances) for each of your parents. It doesn't have to be 'live' as long as you are happy that they have capacity, but it is much, much easier to register, and thus activate, it if the need arises, than it is to set up a PoA for someone who has lost capacity. Something like a stroke can deprive them of capacity very suddenly and unexpectedly, and just having to register the PoA, which takes a while anyway, makes handling the situation much easier.

I do hope you get a resolution to this immediate problem without too much difficulty.

@Funguy services were not provided.

I accept that you are partly right, in saying that if money was gambled, services would have been provided, therefore, no matter refund.

For instance, direct debits you'll set up to national lottery knowingly, you won't get refunded from,

HOWEVER

I strongly suspect the company won't be legitimate (or licensed) so that would not apply in this case.

OP, please make that point when calling, because to be polite, even with all the training provided, front line customer service is open to any "Joe bloggs" without a criminal record.

And for those suggesting POA, it's a lengthy process involving the courts. It would be much easier to set yourself up as a joint account holder, to keep an eye on things.

POA means your dad wouldn't be able to use or access his own account.

And make sure your dad is with you when you call, they'll need to take care him through security, and clarify they are OK to speak to you on his behalf.

@amicissimma that is also a great idea for the OP to start the process of.

cccameron
Most likely the money has not been gambled. Why would con artists basically flush their ill gotten gains down the loo?

It could have been spent on anything, including laundering through derivatives trading. Or sent to the Cayman Islands.