To think "Persuasive Writing" lessons shouldn't encourage students to make up 'facts' and statistics?

[diagonallies]

My two DCs have both had several English lessons on the topic of persuasive writing in both primary and secondary school. These have focussed on persuasive techniques, but every time they have been told it's fine to make up some statistics or facts to strengthen their argument, presumably on the grounds that it's an English lesson, not a science lesson or a lesson on critical thinking.

But surely critical thinking should be at the heart of everything our children learn at school? If it's ok for future journalists, politicians, bloggers and advertising copywriters to make up persuasive stats in their English essays, then can we really be confident they will ever unlearn that?

It’s because in an exam a child with knowledge of the topic being written about (last years AQA was cheating in sport) would have an advantage over a child who didn’t so it’s to make sure the English skills are being tested, not knowledge of a subject.

I think YABU. If they spent time looking up the stats that could easily be the whole lesson gone. As long as they are taught that they are making up because they are practicing I think it is OK.

otoh Maybe they are learning to ask for sources when reading 'facts'?

A better alternative would, I suppose, be the teacher providing a set of statistics on the topic for them to pick from.

Comefromaway: "If they spent time looking up the stats that could easily be the whole lesson gone"

If they use a real stat I would expect them to be taught to include the reference as a footnote. So if they make one up, perhaps the footnote should read "Made up statistics" - that way at least they're being taught to reference properly. It's terrible how many news articles, blogs and adverts don't provide references to background information so that sources can be checked.

And of course, there's no excuse for making up stats in homework.

YANBU.

While style matters, it should always be the servant of substance. Providing background data would make the task much more realistic.

And people who can write persuasively on the basis of falsehoods are dangerous. It's absolutely not something which should be encouraged.

I really wouldn't spend time worrying about this.

If I ask the children in my class to write a newspaper report about a lion that has escaped from a zoo I expect them to make up facts.

Same goes for a product report about a robot teacher.

If I want them to persuade the head to ban school uniform or extend playtime then I would make up statistics when I wrote my version then tell them to make up a few when they write theirs.

But Siring1, I would call your examples Creative Writing, not Persuasive Writing.

• If I ask the children in my class to write a newspaper report about a lion that has escaped from a zoo I expect them to make up facts.

That's not exact 'persuasive writing' though, is it?

I meant the examples in your first post of course.

If I want them to persuade the head to ban school uniform or extend playtime then I would make up statistics when I wrote my version then tell them to make up a few when they write theirs.

Perhaps next time, if you don't have real stats, you should reference your stats as made up in a footnote and explain to your students that in real life they should reference a real source.

Yanbu. While the subject is English, pursauive writing is something lots of people will use in real life. So teaching, you can make them up, isnt true in the real world (what kids are meant to be preparing for) and it's being able to make stuff up, isn't helping them the improve their persuasive writing skills.

It doesnt take ages to look up a couple of stats.

A much better idea would be to advise them that interpretation of facts is often used. Most stats can be manipulated and presented in different ways. That's a skill that's required.

The genre is persuasive writing - non fiction.

In order to.make it read like a real life text they will need to include certain features. These elements are made up to add realism to the text

I don't ask them to write about knife crime or Syria; they write to persuade someone to buy a robot that can change nappies and work as a hover car. Where would I get facts and statistics from?

A much better idea would be to advise them that interpretation of facts is often used. Most stats can be manipulated and presented in different ways. That's a skill that's required.

And something for them to be aware they need to detect.

What percentage of people are currently happy with the NappyBot 400?

In my DC's exam papers, all of the texts in the Reading section are linked by theme, and the Writing tasks are linked to this theme. They are expected to use the information from the first half of the paper to support their persuasive or information writing, I believe. That's what their teachers told us.

Hiding

What do you do for a living?

Oh my God, teaching GCSE kids to use referencing and footnotes?

Wake up.

And something for them to be aware they need to detect.

Yes that's a great point, dont trust someone else interpretation before making a decision.

I could write a piece of persuasive writing that says

'TV should be banned because WHO study in 2018 advises that people who watch TV lose, on average, 60 IQ points within 2 years. TV is making humanity stupid and is a health concern.'

Non of it's true. So how would that teach me anything about persuasive writing? It's not improving my skills at all.

I'm with you 100% OP. It's a fact that 23.87% of statistics are made up.

What do you do for a living?

Why?

The exam boards actually advise against making up stats - it's one of their pet peeves.

Hidingwhoiam

It doesnt take ages to look up a couple of stats.

Wrong, it doesn't take you ages to look up a couple of stats, it can take a class of teenagers ages.

This is an example of the end “product” students are working towards.

“All sport should be fun, fair and open to everyone. These days, sport seems to be more about money, corruption and winning at any cost.’
Write an article for a newspaper in which you explain your point of view on this statement.”

Marks are given for content, organisations & technical accuracy. No marks for footnotes or authenticity of facts. It’s about putting an opinion across.

they write to persuade someone to buy a robot that can change nappies and work as a hover car.

Maybe they should be writing about something they can actually find stats on. What age do you teach?

The hint o have from the OP is that her kids are doing the writing piece based on things where there would be stats. Surely, if the kids were writing about something made up, she would have an issue with made up stats.

So I can help you do it better. I want to repay your kindness.