Why do so many people distrust socialism?

[malificent7]

Is it due to the legacy of Marx, the notion that it's a race to the bottom, the feeling that those who work harder should get paid more or a mistrust of human nature?
I do understand these concerns but what is more worrying if the vast inequality that seems to prevail nowadays. Thoughts please.

"Funny - I’d say the people who want to have other people’s money and property “redistributed” to themselves by a socialist government are the very embodiment of personal greed!"

Frankly I think this is a defensive response to being called out on the real reason some dislike socialism.

But assuming genuine...

How is it defined as only your money if it's created/come to you as a result of but only your own but also others labour? Which most income of the wealthy is? How is it that doesn't belong to those who's labour creates it?

(I feel I've worded it badly, perhaps someone else can explain better?)

The £X million a CEO is paid is not fair compensation for the work they've put in, it's excessive and only possible because of not only the labour of their company's employees on nmw but ALSO because those employees can only afford to work, feed themselves so they're able to work etc BECAUSE the govt is subsidising ridiculously low wages, the money for THAT is far more likely to come from taxes paid by low to middle income earners than the rich! Who do all they can to avoid paying the tax they should!

So no I don't consider it all your money.

"But those with the money not prepared to spend any of it yet grousing about crime and public services need to get a reality check. To have these services we need to contribute." Exactly!

Because the tabloid press (founded by tax avoiding rich scum like Murdoch) says it doesn't work.
Because a lot of people are still deluded on the subject of "nice life" equalling "hard work", and that in the country where aristocracy still exists.
Because higher earners peddle the idea of "meritocracy", i.e. that they are rich because they "deserve it" or "earned it". When it's the people they exploit and underpay who earned it for them, and who'll never see any nice life or social security. The 5% who holds most wealth are that good at pulling the wool over everybody's eyes.

Some people here need to let this Soviet Union/Communism thing go... We know that's the Bogeyman they teach about at Fox News for all the little Trump minions to go out and parrot, but there are plenty of examples of Democratic Socialists who are not communists (i.e. Bernie Sanders)! It's a completely false narrative.

Also, the ones who are the Warhawks are the conservatives, namely George Bush! How many fucked up wars have we been dragged in to for profit now? It's ridiculous. Selling weapons to Saudi Arabia to kill innocent people in Yemen and all the other shit we have done for profit will be in future history books as we are revealed to be "the bad guys"!

If more inheritance tax means vastly better public services and equally that more people spend during their lifetime, then I think this is a good thing for society.

I don't think 100% inheritance tax will ever happen because as I mentioned before the phasing of it would be very difficult, and nobody would trust a government enough to vote for a party with that policy.
However, I find it a really interesting idea, particularly alongside keeping income taxes fairly similar to as they are now.

I think it's fairer society to have everyone looked after very well, still able to earn according to your training/skill/ desire. If the price to pay for that is not handing over assets to the next generation, I think that's ok. They can earn their own money, earning and spending as they wish to. If they need care and are unable to work, they are looked after very well. But this is an idea. I cannot see it ever working in practice.

It goes back to Henry Ford. His philosophy was basically, give a worker the means to buy a little car/fridge of their own - on credit of course - and they will start to imagine they are ‘owners’ and ‘superior’ to non-owners, who are to be reviled.

This was a win-win for Ford because by making a market in his crummy little cars, and all the other consumer stuff people were persuaded would make them superior to their neighbours, he made lots of money, and the mass market in replaceable consumer stuff became turbo-charged.

....And here we are. 80 years later, he is long dead and the wheels are coming off because he forgot to factor the earth (his giant rubbish tip) into his model (not to mention the fact that cars can be made a lot cheaper in other countries).

So no I don't consider it all your money.

How fortunate that I’m not compelled to be ruled by your opinion. Convenient that you hold that opinion though, as it would otherwise be difficult to justify confiscating what others have earned.

CendrillonSings

How do you justify a banker earning 10 (or more) times the salary of a nurse? Does the banker work 10 times harder than the nurse? Have 10 times more knowledge?

The problem with capitalism is that the only goal is the pursuit of money. Social cohesion, public services, etc, don't matter a damn. So the people providing essential services are left behind, not only because the cost of living (particularly housing) is rising much faster than their wages, but they have the additional stress of dealing with government cuts at work and trying to provide a decent service on a shoestring. Meanwhile, the people who facilitate the generation of wealth are handsomely rewarded for jobs that provide no benefit to wider society. We have our priorities all wrong, and it's simply not sustainable.

It's also important to remember that nobody can predict the future. Any one of us may need a safety net if we get an illness, have an accident, get made redundant, etc. Don't judge until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes.

I suspect that the brutal suppression of people in the USSR and China may have something to do with it.

confiscating what others have earned

AKA taxation

I suspect that the brutal suppression of people in the USSR and China may have something to do with it.

Yes, communist dictatorships are terrible things. Not what we're talking about here though, not even remotely.

I'm sure life was shit for many people in the USSR and China. However life is shit now for many people in capitalist societies too. Capitalism isn't just Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, it's children living by picking rubbish out of giant dumps in Nairobi slums and slaving in Bangladeshi garment factories to make clothes for Primark.

There are far too many Veruca Salt types here.

You all have 2 options, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

1. You either pay taxes and get the services.

OR

1. You don't pay taxes and you pay for everything yourself.

You can't have it all ways. You can't not pay taxes and keep the NHS, it doesn't work like that.

I'm letting you know, that you are being fooled in to Option 2. Option 2 benefits billionaires who have something to gain by being the middle men between you and the services you will need. It is the far more expensive option. You can have a bunch of shills dance around with catchy mantras of "Keeping what you earn" but that will NEVER happen. You either pay what you earn to a corporation or you pay it to HMRC, but you will never get to keep it!

Capitalism isn't just Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk, it's children living by picking rubbish out of giant dumps in Nairobi slums and slaving in Bangladeshi garment factories to make clothes for Primark.

It's also homeless teachers in the US.
Children living in cars. Yes, in the US.

Capitalism is about taking advantage of what others produce, ultimately. It's making money for the sake of making money. And making money for ourselves at the expense of anyone else.

@Sakura7
Yes, communist dictatorships are terrible things. Not what we're talking about here though, not even remotely.

So says you. Both these governments were part of the socialist diaspora and described (or continue to describe) themselves as socialist. How they have behaved clearly will have an impact how how the public in western liberal democracies view socialism.

@jophie80

Cuba another socialist country, has one of the best healthcare in the entire world, they also have some of the best doctors in the world!

Not so much. It's actually a two tier system with one level of care for cash paying foreigners and the political elites and a much lower level (like bring your own bed sheets and light bulbs to hospital) for the masses.

Think the Cuban healthcare system is ideal? No cigar. Not even close.

Hopoindown31 Sure, democratic socialism is so unpopular in western countries. Try telling that to Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Canada, New Zealand, etc, etc.

MissConductUS
Very shitty journalism of that article.

Both these governments were part of the socialist diaspora and described (or continue to describe) themselves as socialist.

But everyone described them as and used the word communist rather than socialist.

How they have behaved clearly will have an impact how how the public in western liberal democracies view socialism.

Except that most western liberal democracies include parties that also call themselves socialist or have socialist in their names. Parties that are perfectly democratic and have also been in power previously.
It's mostly the UK that isn't used to them

It's mostly the UK that isn't used to them

Probably because we don’t like thieves.

Some people here need to let this Soviet Union/Communism thing go... We know that's the Bogeyman they teach about at Fox News

John McDonnel Reading from Mao’s red book in the House of Commons. McDonnel saying on film, he is a Marxist. Corbyn and McDonnel appearing under banners featuring Stalin, Lennin and Mao. Abbot saying on TV that Mao did a lot of good, a man that starved tens of millions of his countrymen.

I don’t think you can blame Fox News for McDonnel taking Maos red book into parliament. Maybe you’re the one constructing a false bogeyman. The video evidence is out there for you to see if you are open to it of course

You are a useful idiot for these very dangerous men. Socialism is only a tool to install communism. Source: Marx. Sorry that is doesn’t fit your naive world view but whilst the spectre of communism, the most murderous and corruptable political ideology ever to exist, is still with us, I won’t be letting decades of human suffering and misery go.

If you don’t believe me, read the post from someone above who lived under this.

No problem with any political religion, provided those who espouse it experience what it's like to live under such a doctrine.

But they don't do they? Ever seen a Tory/Labour/LD etc. etc. queing at a food bank?

Didn't think so.

Sure, democratic socialism is so unpopular in western countries. Try telling that to Denmark, Sweden, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Canada, New Zealand, etc, etc.

I can only speak for Germany, and the socialism in East Germany ended in 1989. Germany has a social (not socialist) market economy. None of the major parties is Germany would describe themselves as socialist.

If you don’t believe me, read the post from someone above who lived under this.

In Denmark? I haven't seen any Danish people in this thread. 🤔