To not want to contribute to honeymoon fund

[toooldforthisshite]

Friend is getting married for the second time for both of them. They both earn good money but spend over their means (she tells me so and will quite happily admit to maxing several credit cards to pay for £1000+ on a gift, holidays aboard etc expensive trips) they seem to want to out do each other in the elaborate gift giving for birthdays etc.
They have asked for money for their honeymoon. I don't generally agree with people doing this anyway but in this instance it's really bugging me and I don't want to fund their honeymoon when they could budget for that themselves (they are going away a week or so after the wedding to Europe as part of one of these elaborate birthday gifts but they don't want this to be a honeymoon as it's not enough apparently)
I do however want to get them a gift. I'm not sure what though.

Well British cultural norms, which stem from a time when weddings were between young couples with no money and no household goods are outdated and some people need to move with the times if they can't see this.

Exactly

We urgently need to adapt to an era where people have stuff, don’t need more stuff and want to reduce waste.

I find it much more polite if the couple inviting me tell me what they want, be that cash, a gift list or a favourite charity. I'm busy, we all know it's the cultural norm to give you a gift of some kind if I go to your wedding. I appreciate you valuing my time and money and the earth's resources enough to ensure I don't have to risk wasting them on something there's no guarantee you will like or value. I find it considerate. And I'm British. Of Irish descent, admittedly, and they don't go in for all this fucking about and pretence, but then millions of British people are of this background too.

I completely agree.

Seems you either specify what you want (and be deemed tacky and grabby by some) or say nothing and get trapped in a kind of strange dance where you try to avoid being given crap you don't want without actually saying what you do want. Or you graciously accept all the crap and then get rid of the bits you don't want which just seems such a huge waste!

I'm not sure you can win!

Actually, I suggested that the bride and groom don’t ask for stuff, so I see no conflict between my position and the “reducing stuff and waste” argument.

Re the cultural norms thing: when your birthday is coming up, would you say to your friends and family, “just give me cash”?

If you’re in a relationship, when it is Valentine’s Day (which I don’t particularly like but for the purposes of the discussion), would you say to your partner, “no flowers or card please, just give me what you would have spent in cash”?

At Easter, would you say, no chocolate eggs please, just give me the cash?

In the pub, when ii’s your friend’s round, do you say, I don’t want another drink but you can just give me £7 because that’s what a glass of wine costs?

Of course not. Whether you like flowers or chocolate eggs, or consider that you have enough of them already, or you don’t want another drink, is irrelevant. You ask people not to give you the gift or decline the drink offer. You don’t ask for a cash alternative. It’s tacky.

There’s some crazy, spiteful people in the world.

i appreciate you valuing my time and money and the earth's resources enough to ensure I don't have to risk wasting them on something there's no guarantee you will like or value.

This is so very sensible, exactly the point.

You ask people not to give you the gift or decline the drink offer

Well that is absolutely fine for birthdays, valentines, easter etc, but how does it work when the people attending your wedding ignore your request 'because they couldn't possibly come empty handed'.

And then we are back to all the pretence of being grateful when all they have given you is something that you either have to put up with cluttering up your home or send to a charity shop and feel guilty about the waste.

You don’t ask for a cash alternative. It’s tacky.

But when people repeatedly ask you what you want, because they want to give you a gift on such a big occasion. What then?

Actually, I regularly request cash towards something for my birthday (if asked what I want!) Last year quite a few people gave me money towards a spa day. My DH and I both agree that we won't buy Valentine's gifts and stick to a card. We spend the money on a family day our or something instead.

The point is, people WILL give a gift generally. I genuinely cannot fathom why it's offensive to say "we'd love to see you at our wedding! If you did want to give us a gift, this is what we'd prefer"

The option is still there not to give a gift at all if you prefer. I've probably been to 20 weddings in the last 10 years, I've given cash at every single one!

Re the cultural norms thing: when your birthday is coming up, would you say to your friends and family, “just give me cash”?

No, but neither would they come empty handed when I invite them to a big party. They would just pester DH until he gives them an idea, or would end up buying vouchers.
It would be totally fine to tell them that I am going on a holiday for my birthday and they are welcome to contribute if they must.

I've never know anyone coming to any of my parties, even if it's a bbq, empty-handed.

Asking for cash on the invitation IS tacky.
Replying to guests who ASK that a contribution to honeymoon is welcome is absolutely fine. And normal.

You had a poem did you, Nosauce?

Not that any of these examples are directly comparable to a wedding, but since they're do easily rebuttable, I may as well. I dont do Valentines Day and never have. Havent had Easter presents since I was a child and in my family we have a minimal presents for adults Christmas policy. The people I get them off are DH, parents and in laws and yes actually, its usually cash. Same with birthdays really. Going for a drink with a friend is particularly not analogous here as it isnt an occasion when the cultural norm is for me to receive presents.

And you can say bride and groom just shouldnt ask for stuff, but the reality is that people do and will want to give a gift anyway, for better or for worse, so the outcome is simply going to be more stuff. Your solution is not a solution if there's zero possibility it would work in reality. It will increase waste and its deluding yourself to think otherwise.

*Re the cultural norms thing: when your birthday is coming up, would you say to your friends and family, “just give me cash”?

If you’re in a relationship, when it is Valentine’s Day (which I don’t particularly like but for the purposes of the discussion), would you say to your partner, “no flowers or card please, just give me what you would have spent in cash”?

At Easter, would you say, no chocolate eggs please, just give me the cash?

In the pub, when ii’s your friend’s round, do you say, I don’t want another drink but you can just give me £7 because that’s what a glass of wine costs?*

Yes, if I have a birthday trip coming up.
Yes, if I had my eye on something.
Easter? People like actually get chocolate eggs as an easter pressie?😮 Is there actually a thing as Easter present?

Pub example is ridiculous.

People don't have to ask me because I'm not going to try and look for the 'perfect' gift when most people do prefer money.
Then they can buy something that they actually want or put it towards a holiday/honeymoon/night out/whatever. I honestly don't care as long as they have a lovely wedding day and are happy.

Personalising the argument, ie saying “I don’t do Valentine’s Day and I haven’t had a chocolate egg since I was a kid” does not rebut it, I’m afraid.

If you feel awkward giving cash - and I do as it does rather put a value on the friendship - then how about an expensive bottle of wine/champagne?

Oh yes it very definitely does, I'm afraid. None of the occasions you chose are analagous to weddings, but ones that don't generally involve presents are particularly not relevant here.

Saying that personalising the argument does not rebut it would be a stronger point if you hadn't chosen something as unusual as adults getting Easter gifts to make your (daft) point. Nor does Valentine's Day typically involve getting gifts from as many people as a wedding. This is why your argument has been so comprehensively rebuffed by so many people.

Again. Is there really such a thing as Easter pressie??? 😮

Applying the argument to small, token stiff like Easter eggs/drinks/Valentines presents is ridiculous.

The sums spent are tiny. The significance only token.

Wedding presents tend to be reasonably substantial. Which is part of the reason why ppl try to avoid money wasted on stuff people don’t want. They’re also much more significant, a gesture of goodwill to the couple making a commitment.

Birthday presents are the only example you have that comes close and yes, I’ll often gift cash, vouchers or ask specifically what people want. I wouldn’t thoughtlessly gift a photo frame for a birthday either.

I have requested vouchers from family for my birthday. I don’t expect birthday presents from friends, I’m much too old for that.

This is all so strange. In every other area you get cries of 'well they're not a mind reader!' And yet when it comes to weddings, heaven forbid someone tell you what they want, oh no, you have to morph into the amazing kreskin and figure out which one of the hundred near identical sets of silverware the happy couple want!

I wonder if those who feel uncomfortable about it are those who feel uncomfortable around discussions about money generally?

I'm very open about money with my family, I'm aware it my mum's financial position, we've discussed it. I'm open about how much I earn with friends, my sister and I have always been open about any help we received from our parents.

I might be wrong but I wonder if there's a connection? I'm definitely in the "let's all just lay our cards on the table" school of thought!

God People are so jealous and petty sometimes.

Most reasonable people going to a wedding wish to get the couple something. Much better to ask for what you want, and make sure the money spent goes to good use, than end up with a pile of shite you don't want.

There is nothing wrong with it, in fact it's sensible.

It's interesting to see the resistance here. I am from EU country and my parent's generation were getting household stuff because they were just starting up. My generation gets money, because they lived together longer. No one from the older gen moans about it. Actually they encourage it.

@Sunshinegirl82 why are you implying that "I'm angry and personally aggrieved" and that I don't find joy in weddings.

How strange. You can make all the assumptions you like.

Sigh. Here is a simpler example of why personalising an argument does not rebut it:

Person A: too many people drive to work instead of taking public transport and it’s bad for the environment.

Person B: I haven’t got a car. Ha! There, I’ve just rebutted your argument.

Except they haven’t, see?