To wonder how one would go about abolishing private schools?

[Chuffin]

If anyone is following the @abolisheton campaign, they state their aim is to integrate private schools into the public sector and hope this to be included in Labours next manifesto.

My children are about to start independent school, having had a terrible time for a whole host of reasons in their state primary.

Aside from the moral argument for or against private schools, I am very interested in whether it would be legally possible to abolish private schools and how this would happen? Would this even be feasible realistically?

@Chuffin no, my kids are currently in the state system for primary, it's the secondary system around here that's dire. I absolutely link the underfunding of the state system to the existence of independent schools and grammars, because the very wealthy and decision makers know their own kids will never have to face being sent to a Needs Improvement school where kids get stabbed for being in the wrong postcode.

So sure, I'm fully aware it's a bit hypocritical - but no more than someone who believes in halting climate change but also flies overseas to visit family. My kids aren't going to be sacrificed on the altar of my principles, when sending them to our local school will make zero difference to the school as a whole but vastly disadvantage them.educationally and potentially put them in harm's way. But I'll happily vote for labour or another party that intends to dismantle the public system (even if it means my kids have to.move), because I think it would be worth it for the country as a whole.

It's all bloody ridiculous.

If labour are that against private schools they should stop sending their children there.

I don't see how they could abolish private schools, but if they did, all the private school families would just move next to the best school in the area, the house prices would increase and only the rich could afford them. So a free private school in effect!

Can't remember who, but a poster said that grammar schools didn't work. My mum was the only child in her very lower working class family to get into the local grammar, got good grades, now owns her own business and had done very well (especially compared to the stockings that didn't get in). I accept it may be a different story in wealthier areas, but this was a mining area.

There have been quite a few threads on this already

I don't think it's possible

It happened in Germany, in the aftermath of WWII which was a ground zero of sorts.

Starting from scratch, they decided to build a state education system that would cater for 'everyone'. There are vanishing few exceptions granted to pupils not attending state education.

Can you imagine the impact on society of a really well funded state school system ?

This was extended to tertiary education, where everyone who reaches the required grades on matriculation will gain a place on study the subject of their choice. Fees are limited to cover the cost of administration.

This is made available to anyone regardless of nationality. Imagine the goodwill built by students from across the world being welcomed.

There are different types of secondary school, some academic for those with their sights on University, also technical schools and general schools. Arts and culture are well funded too. 😀

It is possible.

Private schools existence does not in any way force state schools to be shit.

This is just it in a nutshell.

Labour is inadvertently admitting that these schools are ‘better’ by being hellbent on abolishing them and that they want to rid them simply because they want to take a swipe at the wealthy.

@scruffgin

You poor innocent soul. On this site 4 million users could come on and say the same and they will all be written off as anecdotal rubbish sadly.

Members of my family have been similarly elevated and one didn't make it to the grammar, and at technical college made it to uni anyway.

Stats twisted for purpose and gain.

Like the very fact they removed the internal systems to help dx from uninterested families to get to grammar. Usually poor. Then turn around and say, poor kids can't get in..

Of course they can't! The ladder was pulled away.

It's all such a nonsense.

“Labour is inadvertently admitting that these schools are ‘better’“

Of course they’re “better”! They’ve got money coming out of their ears!

i cannot in good conscience send my children to a chronically underperforming high school,

No I dare say you can’t. I’m sure a lot of people would feel better if they could provide their children with an excellent education but don’t have the wherewithal.

“Like the very fact they removed the internal systems to help dx from uninterested families to get to grammar”

That’s interesting- can you say some more about this?

Finally here..
Some aspect of German education is v good.

But there is little cohesion across the the States. Different rules and for instance a grade has different quality to a grade elsewhere.
They are streamlined much earlier almost like 11+ for all.

It can take years to plough through to getting degree.
. Its not something I'd want to emulate at all.

Would all the teachers in the private sector really just accept being moved into the state sector or would they leave teaching? How much of a pay cut would they accept? Would they care about teaching twice the number of kids in their classes. etc.

An end to private schools would imo mean an instant increase in house prices around outstanding state schools. Local middle class children would be priced out of their nearest school and sent to bog standard comps.

Private school kids will not lose out no matter what, poorer families would.

Private schools existence does not in any way force state schools to be shit.

Completely agree. But ultimately it comes down to money. And sadly, the best teachers and best well intentioned people (which is the best tool for a great school) are driven out partly by this. Likewise parents are driven away by the cuts. Not all the wealthy use private schools.

That’s interesting about Germany, I don’t know much about it.

If we were to get rid of private education here do you think labour would also rule out home schooling?

The German education system has been condemned by the United Nations for perpetuating social inequity.

I think if you agree that private schools are fundamentally unfair and divisive ( my position) then you want them banned as a strong matter of principle,and dealing with the consequences will follow on from there

I think if you agree that private schools are fundamentally unfair and divisive ( my position) then you want them banned as a strong matter of principle,and dealing with the consequences will follow on from there

User what do you think about the posters on mumsnet who condemn private education and yet send their children to private schools?
Actually I quite admire them for having the nerve to admit to such hypocrisy.

“Labour is inadvertently admitting that these schools are ‘better’“

Of course they’re “better”! They’ve got money coming out of their ears!

What I mean is, you are inadvertently admitting that this system produces results and therefore that the state system is not up to scratch. That basically envy is the driving force. But why does it have to be one or the other? Why not make the state school fantastic instead of tearing down the private system?

Knitted jimmy Choos This is not an issue to which you apply common sense, logic, or facts. This is an issue which provides an opportunity for you to vent your spleen and your ingrained dislike of the social classes immediately above and below you in the hierarchy. Get with the programme, matey, watch Bertrand; she’ll show you the ropes.

I think it would be very difficult to eliminate public schools, but I don’t get why so many seem to not see the problem with their existence and the dominance of their former pupils across politics, media, law, etc

I think if you agree that private schools are fundamentally unfair and divisive ( my position) then you want them banned as a strong matter of principle,and dealing with the consequences will follow on from there

Oh yes fantastic. Let’s just act now and think of the consequences later...!

@Dapplegrey totally agree. And I'm happy to have the option taken away, if it's across the board.
But if your child was ill, and.you had a year or more wait for NHS treatment or could be seen immediately privately - and could afford to do so - would you wait for 18 months because of your deep seated belief in public health? We are currently in the state system, I believe in it, and vote to have it improved. However I'm also not going to send my DCs to a failing school to prove my moral purity when they don't have to be failed.

Alternatively I could move house to a desirable area where my children have specialist teachers and don't risk being called racial slurs on the bus, or have classmates who carry knives - and then come back to these discussions safe in the knowledge that I can claim my children are still state educated. Is that truly any more virtuous?

I think the whole system needs to be overhauled, and am happy to vote for that, even to our family's immediate detriment. In the meantime, while it's deeply unequal and individual families make so little difference, I'm sending my kids somewhere decent. I am fully alive to the unfairness of this, but am hard pushed to believe that many other parents (Corbyn aside) wouldn't do the same if they were in our position and had the resources.

Oh yes fantastic. Let’s just act now and think of the consequences later...!

No, that’s not what she said.

The super-rich, the well connected, the landed gentry, will continue to be just that.
I think you’re right and as you said only full on communism (brought on via a revolution and a lot of bloodshed) will stop it.
Then that particular communist regime will be overthrown and the super rich and landed gentry will be looking into restitution of their property confiscated in the revolution.....
Actually the super rich will flee with all their money at the hint of even a real socialist government let alone a communist one.

It might help more if the government just increased funding into the state system equivalent to what it would take to state educate all the privately educated pupils.

I don't know where they think they'd find enough additional state school places at present when teacher retention is so poor

Nah - even labour aren’t that stupid to believe they could do this - where will they send all their children to?!

@Stuckforthefourthtime

So you’re happy to sacrifice your principles when you vote for private schools to be abolished, perhaps to their detriment, but not at the moment when you’re sending your kids to them.

Ok...

Eh?