To wonder how one would go about abolishing private schools?

[Chuffin]

If anyone is following the @abolisheton campaign, they state their aim is to integrate private schools into the public sector and hope this to be included in Labours next manifesto.

My children are about to start independent school, having had a terrible time for a whole host of reasons in their state primary.

Aside from the moral argument for or against private schools, I am very interested in whether it would be legally possible to abolish private schools and how this would happen? Would this even be feasible realistically?

a large number of children will go to state schools I meant independent there, of course...

So when they have removed the option of private education, are we going to remove private healthcare?

I also think that people seriously don't get the difference between most independent schools and public schools like Eton and Harrow.
There is also a level of hypocrisy around grammar schools with the middle classes elbowing their way in with access to tuition etc.
And wealthier parents will always be able to purchase homes in the catchments of more desirable schools.
It will never happen.

We need more variety not less when it comes to education.

THIS

I hate Old Etonians as much as anybody possibly could

Charlotte - you hate all old Etonians? Every single one? Do you also hate those who are currently at the school so are not yet ‘old’ Etonians?
You sound like a bigot

“We need more variety not less when it comes to education”

What we don’t need is a variety of education which is only accessible to a tiny minority of the population.

**Actually, I'll be sending my children to independent secondary schools but support abolishing them. As the system stands, a large number of children will go to state schools, I went to one (on a scholarship), our local state schools are crap and I don't feel right about hugely disadvantaging my children for the sake of principles they may not share, when the children of those who do not give a toss can get the leg up.

However I'd vote to abolish them for all.

Eh?

Sorry but this smacks of sanctimonious hypocrisy.

When exactly would you vote to abolish them? Once your children have finished their education so not to give others the choice you had?

Only the most bigoted snob would not wish for an improvement in the state sector, in an ideal world this would be exactly what would happen and there would be no need for the private sector, but to state you would abolish it when your own kids attend is just hypocrisy.

Someone said the sector was booming?
I know friends who teach in private schools and they are all suffering, some are all not too far from closing. This being caused by Brexit (many foreign students aren’t returning next year) and the increase in fees.

Actually, I'll be sending my children to independent secondary schools but support abolishing them.

Then you’re a complete and utter hypocrite. I think you are saying this knowing it’s unlikely that private schools will be abolished in the near future.

However if they are then that doesn’t mean that the your local schools which you are so desperate to avoid for your little darlings will improve so what will you do when the only option is to send them to the local, as you describe it, ‘crap’ school?

Some people use private schools because they have high quality after school clubs that are on until 6 meaning that they can work full time and not have to waste time carting various children to different places for after school clubs.

X post chuffin

Whilst state schools select on faith, aptitude for languages, sport music etc and even distance, then those with money will always end up at the better schools.

All state comprehensives aren’t equal...

At least removing (laughable and unfair) charitable status would mean they could stop evading tax

I'd support that, not just for schools but for other institutions which currently have charitable status applying to all their activities not just those which are genuinely charitable, such as churches. And I'd abolish gift aid, even worthy charities are rarely more valuable than paying for universal health care, state schools and social care.

Geez stop fretting - it will clearly never happen and your precious kids will never have to mix with us plebs....

What is the aim of abolishing private schools - to reduce inequality?

It's laughable. There's a substantial difference between your average local independent and the top public schools like Eton or Harrow etc. The super-rich, the well connected, the landed gentry, will continue to be just that. They'll continue their old boys' club in other ways, and still hold the balance of power and wealth. The people who will be affected are the middle classes, the scholarship and bursary children, the 1000s of staff and of course, the entire state system which is already flailing and can't handle the burden of additional cost and intake.

As someone pointed out upthread, social inequalities are the key, that children by the age of 3 from the most deprived background cannot bridge the gap. I believe (sorry no link) that attainment itself is most strongly linked to parental support and input. So really, the knotty issue here, that absolutely won't be solved by abolishing independent schools, is how to help everyone to have an equal chance of attainment? How can we make a top notch education available to all? How to deal with providing that and ensuring you meet the needs of SEN pupils and those who don't get the needed support at home? That's what needs looking at. If you want to stop the rich and upper classes ruling the country, you're going to have to go full on communist (and even that doesn't work when it comes to education, many UK boarding schools are well supplied with wealthy pupils from communist countries).

Make it law that all kids must be educated in a state school.

But quite frankly this is fucking nuts and will never happen

Maybe as a start, we could make it mandatory for MP’s children to go to state school during their time in parliament. And no private health care either!

What we don't need is sanctimonious, rich mn who have never ever experienced how gruelling life can be who sneer at dp who send dc private or grammar but then do the exact same thing themselves. Ie send their own off spring to private or grammar.
Just like the hypocritical labour top tiers.

I just can't take anything that comes out their mouths seriously. Very slippery, disingenuous creatures.

But then isn't labour emblem the wolf in sheep's clothing

Put money where mouth is.

Honestly.

In my town, there’s an area where there is an independent prep school with around 300 pupils, and about 50 meters down the road (if that) is a state primary, both are two form entry.

I’m trying to imagine the scenario: private schools are abolished and they are bought by the government and turned into state sector schools. The town these two schools are in is a very crowded town where school places are a problem (bilge classes, in the news each year for not having enough spaces) So in theory, a new state school would relieve the shortage.

Except this once-private-now-state school would be different. It would stand out. It’s the school with 10 acres of land including woodland, it has 2 AstroTurf pitches, an indoor pool, a theatre, multiple music rooms, 2 very well stocked libraries, playgrounds - this school has the power to make more money by hiring out its facilities (which it already does). Classroom are very large so squeezing an extra 10 into each room won’t cause a space shortage. This school would have a proper science lab, an art and technology room a Wrap Around Care room fitted with sofas and all sorts.

So which school would parents still probably want to pick? Both these schools are situated in a very well off part of town (plenty of detached homes starting at 700k within the mile circle. No social or affordable homes in sight. So the children who will benefit from this school will still be the better off, who can probably afford to donate to keep its facilities going, and as the state school shares the pool and theatre already, it’s a win win for that area.

Meanwhile with the money being spread thinner, the 2 schools located on the 2 areas of deprivation of the town will probably sink lower, and have even less. Having worked in one of these, school trip are minimal as the majority cant contribute. Facilities are to be frank dire, teachers buying their own resources, barely anyone contributing to the Voluntary Fund, no way to make any extra by hiring out what little hall they have. Many children on the fringes will now get a space at other schools as catchment changes due to private’s becoming state, so no one will want these schools and funding will drop lower.

I hate the fact that the richer your family are, the more you can pay to “get a head start” in education. But I don’t think closing private schools will solve any problems. And I do believe in choice and would send any child I have to private if I could. Because I believe what you pay for ultimately is for a school that doesn’t have to try and fit the one size fits all blanket that all state schools are squeezing under.

Umm good idea Bertrand. Would that include schools like the oratory where Blair dc went and cleggs. Or grammar like corbyn son?

To be fair to Corbyn ( which is not something I frequently want to be) his first marriage did break up partly because of his refusal to let the children try for grammar school.

@Dapplegrey

Then you’re a complete and utter hypocrite. I think you are saying this knowing it’s unlikely that private schools will be abolished in the near future.

Do you believe that we need to make big changes to address climate change? Then presumably you but also live off grid and never take a plane?

All of us are hypocritical to some degree. My children are currently at a nice but average state primary and I'd like to go state for secondary. However while I totally appreciate it's unfair, i cannot in good conscience send my children to a chronically underperforming high school, and denying them a decent education for a principle. It's not even that we can make a big difference by being there - in the current funding environment, it's not just that you need kids from aspirational families, it's an entire shift in the way things are done. And yes, if private schools were abolished I would send my kids to the local school, because I believe it would be the start of a big shift - and they may do slightly less well than at a selective independent, but there would be other families at the school and at others across the country in the same boat, and hopefully a ton of other kids who suddenly do better and are able to get into top unis , so it would be absolutely worth it.

Plus the state school are just so badly underfunded- my friend is an infant teacher and next year is having a class of 36! A TA or intervention teacher will constantly have a group out the room to make this manageable (and legal!) if I could afford better for my child I would totally give them the chance to come out of such a situation.

The state schools need more funding. They are barley adequate. I work in Early Years, also an awfully funded sector, so I highly doubt private education will be an option anyway, The government needs to stop pinning the blame on private education and look to equalise the state sector.

His son still attended though. His wife their background their set was still of an ilk that wanted to rise above. He chose his wife.

Private schools existence does not in any way force state schools to be shit.

Five words as to why they won't be abolished.

The Human Rights Act 1998.

Nothing to do with the EU so Brexit will make no difference.