To wonder how one would go about abolishing private schools?

[Chuffin]

If anyone is following the @abolisheton campaign, they state their aim is to integrate private schools into the public sector and hope this to be included in Labours next manifesto.

My children are about to start independent school, having had a terrible time for a whole host of reasons in their state primary.

Aside from the moral argument for or against private schools, I am very interested in whether it would be legally possible to abolish private schools and how this would happen? Would this even be feasible realistically?

Absolutely agree Charlotte.

I think they would have to pass legislation saying you have to either send your child to a state school or home educate.

Cheers, Chuffin!

But surely passing this legislation would be fraught with challenges?

"assuming circa 7% of the total population is privately schooled"

Which year groups are you looking at? It'll need a considerably tighter definition, plus deciding in which basket you put those whose fees are paid by the government). And how you classify those who spent only part of their schooling outside state schools - especially given that the proportions all shift in the Sixth Form.

And how do HE or foreign educated people fit the quota? And would it be life-long ban?

Also wondering how y und it strip someone employment opportunities based on a decision taken by their parents decades earlier.

But surely passing this legislation would be fraught with challenges?

Probably. Didn’t stop Universal Credit, fitness to work assessments, increase to pension ages, academies etc.

How can anyone hate old Estonian!

They did not choose which school to go too.

No it's not a myth. I think the counter myth is that they didn't and hence they were torn down.

I suppose the underhand way to move closer to this goal would be to withdraw charitable status and see what the profit margins look like after that.

And then, once you tipped the balance on the bulk of private schools and parents are stuck with the social stigma of having to send their kids to school alongside the plebs there'll be more political appetite to pull the financially stable public schools into the state fold.

It would be nice if we could have an administratively sound government again.

It all changed in the Blair years (his mistrust and sidelining of the civil service really made an unfortunate difference to standards which had endured)

Getting this wrong will be tech DC's prospects. And I mean in the state sector, which will seriously creak in some parts of the country for the first few years of abolition. Unless they find the money for a proper buyout and expansion - but I haven't seen any signs that there is a plan, let alone a costed plan for that.

"I suppose the underhand way to move closer to this goal would be to withdraw charitable status and see what the profit margins look like after that"

It's worth £200 per pupil per term

It would easily be absorbed.

And of course makes no difference to those which are not charities.

It's unfair to strip people of a university place or job based on which school they went to. The uni places and jobs should be given to the best students whether they went to private school, state school, home school, international school, etc.

I dont think removing charitable status is going to have as much impact as people believe. I worked for an education provider that went to the privy council to remove its charitable status out of choice. Its a business structure. The alternative busness structute worked better for the education provider. The model for that provider would work for the big names.

Meditrina They'd expand Sexeys and add further boarding places at Peter Symonds for the Forces kids, both of which are state.

I thought they had 100% tax relief. Pah. Well, that was an abrupt end to my polical scheming

How do they plan to educate the children from the private schools they close down?

In our area there aren’t enough secondary school places, despite a new school being opened in temporary sheds this year.

What would they do with children approaching GCSEs and A-levels?

Also there is a difference between private schools and independent schools.
Private school make a profit for the owners. Independent schools are usually charitable trusts that plough money back in.

So what exactly is Labour proposing? Abolishing Private? Or both?

It's been successful in Finland and Norway. Could we not just replicate what was done there?

I'm afraid this is the politics of envy and mediocrity.

Fix the state sector before you destroy something that works.
That takes money. So work on rebuilding the economy. Upwards social mobility happens when there's space to move up into.

If they abolished private schools, the county would lose income from school fees for overseas students, some parents would send their children abroad and the remainder would doubtless supplement their children's education in other ways. Doubtless catchments and faith schools would continue to play their part in the unfairness of state schools ... maybe try to fix some of that first?

It's not cheap and lazy politics, it's expensive lazy politics.

I would hope that it was a gradual process that took into account exams. So a y10 could stay at their private school until GCSEs are over etc

I imagine that they'd have to buy the land and buildings, replace teachers who aren't qualified (teachers in private schools might only have a degree in their subjectvl rather than specific teacher training) then rewrite all of the admissions codes.

For people who legitimately need boarding schools (say forces or diplomatic personnel) the government would have to provide education to those kids at the same price as a state day school if equality is their true motive. Or they'll have to guarantee that forces personnel can stay in each UK posting longer as paying for an English speaking international day school abroad (private) would be "unfair"

Another problem is private special needs education. I know a child who is in residential special needs school whose needs can't be met locally. It is totally unreasonable to assume that such a school can financially operate like the state sector.

It's unfair to strip people of a university place or job based on which school they went to.

It would be if imposed retrospectively. It needs to be phased in over a period of time.

Which year groups are you looking at? It'll need a considerably tighter definition, plus deciding in which basket you put those whose fees are paid by the government). And how you classify those who spent only part of their schooling outside state schools - especially given that the proportions all shift in the Sixth Form.

All that is a matter for the fine detail, the purpose of which should be consistent with the aim of reducing the opportunity for moneyed parents to buy admission into the institutionalised Freemasonry that is the public school system and the Establishment. A consultation period would allow all those issues to be raised and competing interests balanced against one another.

And how do HE or foreign educated people fit the quota? And would it be life-long ban?

If I were in charge the purpose would be to encourage home education, not to penalise it. And a quota is not a lifetime ban but a fixed percentage that can't be exceeded at any one time. If Tarquin can't get into the Fast Stream this year, he's welcome to reapply in future.

Of course the legislation would have to be updated over time, just as all legislation and its enforcement is a kind of cat and mouse game against those who would abuse it.

Removing charitable status removes the onus on indies to provide community based projects such as joint science labs and outreach activities which benefit many local schools.

Adding VAT means that many who can just about afford fees will need to fo back into an overstretched state system.

There are closer to 18% educated privately in 6th form not 7%. You would then need to factor in the % of higher grades reached etc so that is a non starter. There are already outreach programmes and contextual offers etc which are making decent inroads to addressing this.

It won't ever happen and shouldn't imo.

I think that the problem is that private schools aren't all Eton and churning out the next PM. It's a ridiculous idea and they should be banning Faith Schools and reducing the gap between state schools before ridiculous stuff like this.

Until Corbyn bans Labour Party MPs from using Faith, grammar and private schools then nobody should take him seriously

“Removing charitable status removes the onus on indies to provide community based projects such as joint science labs and outreach activities which benefit many local schools.“

It would also spare the majority of them from spending time thinking of ways round that duty.

I'm not invested particularly one way or another. I do think we would see a better state school system if everyone were invested in its wellbeing but I don't think it would ever happen.

I do think people are kidding themselves about the value added to society with outreach programmes. Fucking "outreach", cheeky bastards.