To wonder how one would go about abolishing private schools?

[Chuffin]

If anyone is following the @abolisheton campaign, they state their aim is to integrate private schools into the public sector and hope this to be included in Labours next manifesto.

My children are about to start independent school, having had a terrible time for a whole host of reasons in their state primary.

Aside from the moral argument for or against private schools, I am very interested in whether it would be legally possible to abolish private schools and how this would happen? Would this even be feasible realistically?

Didyousaysomethingdarling

Copy and paste didn't work last time.Let's hope this makes more sense.
Schools with charitable status ARE IMPOVERISHING state schools!
For each £100 donated to a private school...If Mr Fairburn gave his £10m to his favourite private school

(edited but taken from an article from the Financial Times by Merryn Somerset Webb - FEBRUARY 24, 2018)

You haven't edited the article by Merryn Somerset Webb - you have doctored it!

Although the principle of Gift Aid is the same, MSW doesn't mention private schools in her article at all - you have changed 'Oxfam' and 'favourite museum' to 'private schools'.

In a previous article about Gift Aid and charities, Merryn Somerset Webb lists private schools as an example, but she suggests that a voucher scheme would be better. In Sweden, for example, parents are given a voucher to spend on state education or private education.

Perhaps you would prefer to remove charitable status from independent schools and give parents a £5,000 voucher per child, per year instead? Private school parents have paid tax for educational services they don't use - the Independent Schools Council has calculated (2018) that private schools save the taxpayer more than £3.5 billion a year, contribute £13.7 billion to the economy, generate £4.1 billion in tax revenues and support more than 300,000 jobs.

In another article, Merryn Somerset Webb says;
"It has always been a mild mystery to me why private schools cling so desperately to their charitable status.It can't save them particularly large amounts of money, particularly given how much they are expected to "give back" in terms of shared facilities and bursaries, and it brings them endlessly political bother...I suspect that if they could all find easy ways of getting out of the whole charity thing (it isn't easy, given the networks of trusts that finance them) they would."

Merryn Somerset Webb is a regular financial commentator on radio and television - let's hope you haven't spread your 'edited' version of her article all over the internet - she might sue you!

And don't forget that school academy trusts can be registered as charities - some state schools/academy trusts must be receiving large donations from wealthy individuals, plus parents paying monthly contributions. Are they claiming gift aid?

Isn't it nice that we live in a free society rather than the authoritarian socialist one so many on here seem to long for?

A free society where anyone can get the benefits of an Eton education!

A free society is one where excellence is not crushed just because not everyone can access it.

copy and paste clav, please, the inxependent schools coincil report is not accurate.

3.5 bn per year is the cost of the VAT exemption, reduced business rates amd other exemptions add up to around another billion.

But you'll cling to anything that backs ylur opinion no matter what the source.

sionnachbeag

My source is tes actually.

"the independent schools council has calculated"

Do you even read what you copy and paste ?

Oh and the private school parents have paid for schooling through taxation is a poor argument, we all pay for things we don't use.

we all pay for things we don't use

Some of us much more so than others.

A free society is one where excellence is not crushed just because not everyone can access it.

There has never been a time when education was fair for all, and there never will be.
The privileged will always be able to afford a good education, irrespective of private schools.
The answer isn't removing private schools and removing charitable status will just mean full fee paying parents only, making a private school/ specialist school elite. At least now they provide some with social mobility.

"Some of us much more than others"

Except the wealthiest benefit the most from society.

However its a poor argument to claim they save the state money when the VAT reduction and other tax breaks work out per child as the same amoubt spent per year per head in the state system.

" I can't work out why it is ok that some parents can make the choice that suits their children with SEN because they can afford the fees when other parents can't, but there we go."

Many children at SEN independent schools have the fees funded by the LA. Often they are children who have been excluded from state special school or no school will take them. There are not state schools for all children.

sionnachbeag
Do you even read what you copy and paste?

£3.5bn a year is correct - The Times, Adam Smith Institute, tes, Sutton Trust are all giving the same figure.

Perhaps your figure is a coincidence?

Private school fees are paid for by money that's already been taxed. If the private schools were abolished it would cost the state system a lot more to educate those children. Adding VAT would only add to the tax burden. It's nonsensical and being proposed to make a point. If they try to add vat and take away the charitable status there will be an almighty legal challenge which will cost even more money. Don't try to drag some kids down to make it "fair": raise the standards of state schools. The parents that couldn't afford the bump in fees would buy houses next to the best state schools and push up house prices even further in those areas and push out lower income families. Adding those families into the mix helps no one. They aren't exactly going to suddenly decide that the failing comp down the road is a good idea. Or they will use grammar schools and tutor their kids. The end result will be pushing out lower income kids.

I disagree. I think private schools do save a fortune. VAT added will not make a difference to the elite. Most school fees are paid by parents or grandparents who can only just afford it. Add VAT on the fees, and business rates to the buildings then they will all leave. The extra cost on state system of those pupils will exceed any gains from VAT and business rates.

All of then quoting the same study clav, arent you supposed to be some high flying academic?

Idiotic statements about money already being taxed once, umm so is everyone elses that they use to buy stuff.

Private schools are not charities, and they give such small amounts of spending to charitable purposes that it means we shouldn't give charity exemption. Other organisations give more of their profits away but don't get charity status.

I agree that more shouod be spent on state schools however that either means taking money from somewhere else or increased progressive taxation, the latter is very unpopular with the majoirty of people who send their children private and those on here who defend it.

I just think need to stop blaming private schools and keep looking for measures on how to make state schools work.
How to support dc with no parental backing for whatever reason, how to support dc with behaviour issues, sen, dyslexia etc.

Have pastoral support available, tons of support for those that need it and so on.
More variety, no monolithic concrete towers. And a million other things.

P. S. I disagree where someone has argued that private school fees do not save the country a fortune. They do save country money

Some very rude and inappropriate personal criticism being directed at BertrandRussell on this thread.

I disagree with Bertrand on many issues (including this one), but her comments here have been fair and pertinent and her tone has been entirely polite. Far more than I'd have managed in the circumstances, tbh.

They don't save the country money, the tax breaks work out at almost exactly what it would have cost to send a child to a state school.

Private education is a choice.
Private school parents make sacrifices to send their children.
Private school parents are doing us a favour by paying for their children’s education because they are paying twice.

It’s almost enough to make me storm the Bastille.

sionnachbeag

All of then quoting the same study clav, aren't you supposed to be some high flying academic?

No, I'm not some high flying academic - you have mixed me up with another poster BorisBogtrotter (I know it's you).

It’s almost enough to make me storm the Bastille.

Go right ahead - I'm sure we could all do with a laugh!

It’s almost enough to make me storm the Bastille

How about people working in a private school....

“Go right ahead - I'm sure we could all do with a laugh!”

I’d offer you a ticket but you might end up in a tumbril.....

I’d offer you a ticket but you might end up in a tumbril.....

This must be kinder, gentler politics of the Left we hear so much about...