Is acupuncture woo?

[SmallHope]

I really want to try something to help with my fertility and mental health.

I eat a very healthy diet, I practice a bit of yoga and mindfulness, I exercise a lot, and I've finished a 3-month course of CBT so I'm doing everything I possibly can but I'm still struggling with low mood and awful periods due to endometriosis.

I'm very unwoo, but has acupuncture helped anyone and is it worth a try?

@fraxion physios don’t do acupuncture they do dry needling which is putting needles in to pressure point and muscles to relax the muscle. I had it done for a bad back and it works. I’ve also had acupuncture done and it’s different to what the physio does.

@AnnaSteen, physio referred to it as acupuncture, possibly to simplify things for me! I do know that when she found the offending muscle that was causing the pain, it hurt when she twiddled the needle but as I said, it worked wonders for me.

My husband has it for pain control and it definitely helps. He's overdue a session and his language is deteriorating.

I have had a lot of dry needling for back and neck pain.

Neck I had a mixture of massage and needling so I couldn’t say which one worked

But I did go through a course of 6 dry needling sessions with no massage or manipulation (pointless and painful) while I was waiting for a spinal injection and it did keep me semi sane. It was NHS physio and I basically just lay behind a blue curtain with not much on for 30 mins each time covered in needles. Sometimes I fell asleep. I really did enjoy it and felt very relaxed

Do you not think you would have enjoyed it/felt relaxed if you had been able to lie still behind a blue curtain for 30 minutes, without the needles?
I nearly fell asleep in my post-yoga relaxation this morning, as everyone else was still in bed and not bothering me. An unusual state for many of us!

No because I had a ruptured disc at L4/5 and lying, sitting, standing, breathing and generally being alive was agony even on a fuck load of gabapentin and codeine and I was on crutches for 3 months until I had a steroid injection in my spine. I did not sleep well for months and couldn’t get comfortable I had V pillows, yoga balls, tennis balls, swimming woggles, pillow mountains, a floor mat, nothing worked for long

Would you really fall asleep in a large room with 7 other cubicals around you half naked only for a thin blue curtain protecting your modesty. No whale music, just a lot of people walking around!

So my 30 mins of dry needling a week, and using a TENS inbetween was I suspect actually relaxing my muscles/distracting my brain somehow from being tense and rigid for a short period of time. It allowed me to have a time where I wasn’t doubled over and I would feel really nice afterwards. It didn’t ‘cure’ anything but it was good for my MH if nothing else

And I tried swimming I couldn’t get in and out of the pool without making it worse I was also scared of slipping over, and floating around in water was then all undone by having to heave myself out and navigate a wet floor and try to get dressed again in a tiny hot cubicle so not relaxing or nice at all

So I am a fan of the needles

Would you really fall asleep in a large room with 7 other cubicals around you half naked only for a thin blue curtain protecting your modesty.
Well, I nearly fell asleep in an MRI machine once so I'm perhaps not the person to ask!

Probably not. It’s not yoga in your bedroom. So I think it is rather silly to compare it. It’s not a relaxing environment. I was in a lot of pain. I don’t care if other people think it is woo I support something that can aid your mental well-being.

My MRI was just very noisy and annoying also I was laying very still in a small space propped up by a plastic wedge worrying my leg or back was going to go into spasm and ruin the images and be painful so I didn’t fall asleep in there

I had one son, no problems. Then had 3 mcs in quick succession, losing each around 10 weeks.

This time I'm on 150mg aspirin daily but have also been having accupuncture. It is probably woo but you know what, I am nearly 30 weeks (albeit with IUGR & placental insufficiency)... so who knows. At 21/22 weeks when the IUGR got diagnosed my blood flows were not looking great (uterine arterial resistance off the chart). I told my acupuncturist, who started doing stuff to promote blood flow. The blood flows have improved to within the normal range since 24 weeks.

Who knows. I don't know of any really rigorous scientific support as to why it could work but I'm not stopping having it now.

Those of us with incurably ill family
members who are using it for pain relief having tried opiates and fentanyl possibly do not find the smarties stuff rib-bustingly funny , Bertrand.

I am very sorry about your family member, @Abraide. Very sorry indeed.

I have had very positive results with acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine. First used for chronic cystitis and it was the only thing that had any effect. I have used it for ankle injury, fertility and general physical and mental health. Of course it will depend very much on your practitioner so if you can get recommendations for a specific person then do that. Not all practitioners will be great or suit you. My one will also tell me realisitcally how often I need to go and tends to save me money rather then tell me to come more often.

My husband is a Neurologist, so many years of specialized medical training. He did a lot of reading and found plenty of solid evidence that acupuncture helps pain. So had a practitioner teach him and uses it in his medical practice. He finds it helps some patients with migraines. So definitely NOT woo.

Many of us with incredibly ill family members don't find things like this funny, Abraid:

I think people underestimate this. DM spent over £40k on alternative therapies in her last 18 months, although the lost cash was nothing compared to the false hope and the crushing realisation that nothing had worked.

Acupuncture and other woo is NOT harmless.

I’ve been pregnant four times and the only one that had a successful outcome was when I had acupuncture. It regulated my periods and also I became very mindful about the food I was eating. At the time I also had an irritating cough (that I get regularly) and that was treated and cured for a while.
For mental health I find that taking a good multi vitamin for women (vit b important), fish oil supplement and probiotics takes the edge off

I'm a nearly qualified acupuncturist.

I've posted previously on this thread with some solid research evidence for it.

I've also given an explanation as to why it is difficult to assess acupuncture within western research.

I spent yesterday shadowing an excellent practitioner. I don't want to break any confidentiality but there were patients who were being cured of chronic illness including depression, loss of taste and sciatica. There were other people with terminal illnesses being eased through their pain, both physical and mental.

For some people, acupuncture is an excellent tool to manage health complaints. For others, they see it as 'woo'. Neither are a problem until people try to force others to see their point of view.

If acupuncture works for you - great! If you don't like the idea of it or if you're not convinced by the research - no problem!

Part of acupuncture is an acceptance of how life is - when we try to force others to see our point of view we create tension and unease. The best thing any of us can do is live and let live.

Have a lovely day

“I've posted previously on this thread with some solid research evidence for it. ”
@chocolstebumby - are you referring to the link to the NHS page you posted on the 18th or was there something else I missed?

Sorry- @chocolatebumby

It has worked for me to help with pain, no idea about fertility or mental health.

Here is a statement from the British Fertility Society about acupuncture and Chinese medicine stating that they have no impact on fertility. It was published in 2010- their position has not changed since.

Hi @BertrandRussell

Yep - the NHS one and the Male infertility one. I have others but if you're interested the Cochrane review is the best place to look. As I said though, you have to remember that almost all Acupincture research will be deemed 'low quality' for reasons I outlined elsewhere.

As I said earlier - you May not like acupuncture, you might think it is woo. You might not agree with research (or lack of it - it's not well funded - no drug companies will make money from it) but there is evidence for efficacy and a whole host of anecdotal and case study evidence.

If you don't like it, you don't like it, it's not my job to convince you otherwise.

Just as an aside - my first patient is a referral from an oncologist to help ease symptoms of drug induced menopause. The oncologist has said he has seen it work before several times.

Of course, this isn't 'evidence' as such but should certainly not be negated.

Whatever you feel the 'mechanisms' are for the efficacy of acupuncture - be it placebo, Qi or piso electrical currents (and there's a great book 'The Spark in the Machine which explains it from a western scientific rationale) there is no denying the positive effects it has on (from what I have seen) a majority of patients.

I totally get where skepticism comes from - that was me until not long ago when I recognised the powerful effects it had for me.

But if it's not for you - it's not for you.

[this] is a very accessible overview from 2018.