AIBU to speak to the school on the last day?

[The2Ateam]

My yr6 DS - last day - today, has not been behaving himself at school recently. Low key but annoying, disruptive behaviour which the school have not spoken to me about at all.

Last week he was held back from a school picnic due to bad behaviour - again no notice to me.

This week missed class party because he disrupted a singing session - again no word to me from the school. Then the whole of the year, some 70 children were asked to write on a price of paper the name of the persons(s) being disruptive. This was rad out and four kids, including him missed their parties.

I’m not sure how I feel about the lack on contact from the school about his behaviour and the punishments which this year are fairly significant being that they are the ‘last.’

AIBU to ask to speak to the teacher on the last day of yr6?

Note: I am always very supportive of school action, especially when my children have been misbehaving.

I wouldn’t be happy op. ‘Get used to it, it’s how secondary will be’ is irrelevant as he’s not in secondary, he’s in primary. Completely untrue as well by the way. I have more feedback and communication now than I ever did with the primary school. I’d have wanted the opportunity to speak with my son after the first sanction to try and turn it around but you didn’t get the chance.

The voting thing should have been done in this way (in my opinion)....... No one knows the results but parent and child are called in and said this isn’t people being mean or unkind but you have disrupted and possibly ruined 7 people’s experience (or however many) and out of 4 people you’re number 1. I want you to think about that and if this is how you want to be known etc...... I’m not sure if the teacher is trying to help or if she’s just pissed off and wanting to prove a point.

I wouldn’t mention it cos I’d think it was pointless but I’d watch out for my other child from now on.

I hope secondary is the making of him!

I wouldn’t be keen on the class voting.

DC primary had two bad year 6 groups where they were still letting pupils vote on who should have the position of responsibility - both years they had to replace people though out the year as popular but disruptive pupils were picked.

The class bully one year everyone was terrified of so any hint someone had put their name down would a have meant trouble. DS year there were definite groups with some already very keen to get people in other group in trouble at any opportunity.

I think it a very bad idea.

The rest though – at DC primary leaving term out of events is reluctantly done – but the pupils have been warned a lot and there a lot of warnings – not sure if parents were aware or not though we all knew about the behaviour expectations and risk of them being excluded if not met via letters sent home.

I’d probably leave it but perhaps mention in next p/t event that you would like a heads up before it gets to a similar stage with younger child.

Getting children to name the naughty children on paper?! Talk about labelling and shaming! I'm surprised that the teachers do not refuse to enable it. Ive never heard such a thing and would complain if my child was asked to do this. If only children could write the name of pettiest teacher.

Talk about labelling and shaming!

On MN, so-called labelling and shaming seems to attract more ire than the disruptive behaviour that is causing all the problems to start with.

Personally I don’t mind bad behaviour being called bad behaviour, and that is all that happened here.

I would speak to them. You have another DC at the school and you need to know what you should be addressing with the DC who is leaving.

fwiw I don't agree with asking the other DCs to vote.Anonymously writing names on a bit of paper to get other children into trouble works on the assumption that the other DCs will all be honest. It's providing a forum for public bullying. I know in DS' school a group of children were misbehaving but no-one told on certain children because they were friends or bullies. The point is that information given anonymously is worthless imo.

IMO it is absolutely not the correct way to go about anything - publicly shaming and humiliating any child. They are children.

By all means do a poll. Call each of the parents in with the child to tell them the result, and give the parents a clear heads up of what has been going on.

If the teachers concur with the poll, and decide the behaviour warrants them not being allowed end of year outings, well at least fully inform the parents what has gone on.

Don't publicly shame the children.

I think it's a very very risky strategy that could have untold consequences.

I 100% back schools very low tolerance for bad behaviour, in fact I applaud it, in the schools I have chosen for my children.

I want them to be in an environment conducive to learning.

I would be appalled if they came home and told me that a public shaming poll had taken place.

Publicly shaming children, without having bothered to inform their parents at any point of a problem, is just wrong.

Very poor of the school.

I prefer bad behaviour to be called out and dealt with - as my children tend to be ones who it adversely affects as they behave and want to learn - but I think it should be done by the teachers and the school staff and parents and not involve the other students.

Previous primary never had to exclude anyone from events – very strong head with supportive team and inclusive ethos– good systems in place for dealing with poor behaviour before it got near to that stage including parent meetings with head and deputies.

I do think current primary is weak and slow in dealing with poor behaviour so by end of year threatening to ban children from events end up being main sanction and often gets used.

I am out the loop admittedly (taught for 13 years secondary many years ago) but am amazed that the writing of the culprits on a piece of paper then naming and shaming took place - bloody hell, we didn't used to wrap our kids on cotton wool but would not have got away with that, it would have been deemed as humiliating the child publicly.
Low-level disruption - talking out of turn, not listening, not sitting on chair properly, acting the clown, flicking things, looking out the window, humming, interrupting...they are all a pain in the arse absolutely.
But if it is to the extent that the frequency of said disruptions is leading to exclusion from all class/all year celebrations it is no longer low-level by that stage and therefore you should have been informed.
I am surprised that if it has become a problem your son wasn't placed on report initially so that you were receiving daily feedback. The voting fuckery reeks of poor senior management - in a whole class assembly/gathering/concert with staff and teachers present in a hall, an adult cannot call out/pull up the culprits so they let children throw them under the bus instead? It is the weirdest policy I have come across.
When we had kids miss out on trips it was a clear sanction to three final warnings/chances - 3 negative comments from staff = No trip.
Communication at secondary done via homework diary/logbook - 2 negative comments = whole school detention. Comments written in logbook each day - parents to sign at end of week. Could also see demerits and be aware of detentions plus escalation to staged procedures - green/amber/red report as required.
Have pastoral systems changed so much?

in

Rage I don't think they have changed that much in most schools. I know our DC's school is similar to what you describe as is DSIS' school. She is a HT and there is no way she would give children paper to vote on the disruptive pupils (or the pupils that you want to get into trouble).

I'm a secondary school teacher, we've had year 6 pupils in for transition. We've dealt with numerous issues include pupils being rude, badly behaved, having their phones out in lesson, bullying and even sexual assault. I've very pleased to hear that primary schools are dealing appropriately with bad behaviour despite it being the end of term.

But the voting thing is very strange

If my child was named in a public poll of who was the most disruptive child in the year, feeling a bit of shame in front of their class mates would be the least of their worries.

Why shouldn't they know what their class mates think? Why should the remaining 66 kids put up with nonsense time and time again? Why do the other children have to suffer in silence? It's not like the naughty children were beaten and handed a dunces cap - they just had to acknowledge that their classmates felt they were trouble making.

My DS1 is going into f6 after the holidays and if I heard this about him, he would be in trouble, and I would take him to apologise to the school.

Wodka they're not mutually exclusive. If I was OP I'd definitely be addressing my DC's behaviour. That doesn't excuse the school having a poor system in place. It's very naive to think children won't abuse an anonymous system or that they aren't influenced by peer pressure, gossip, bullying, etc.

It's very naive to think children won't abuse an anonymous system or that they aren't influenced by peer pressure, gossip, bullying, etc.

Their teachers will be perfectly aware of who is disrupting the learning. The exercise is a bit of showmanship, to teach the disruptive children the lesson that other people don’t think they are cool or funny. If the name of a well-behaved child turns up once in the mix, well, the teacher will just ignore it.

Then the whole of the year, some 70 children were asked to write on a price of paper the name of the persons(s) being disruptive. This was rad out and four kids, including him missed their parties.

I'm appalled to read this. And would be livid as a parent.

Leaving aside the Dickensian humiliation, what on earth is the point when they're all moving on to new schools?

Leaving aside the Dickensian humiliation, what on earth is the point when they're all moving on to new schools?

It teaches the child that other people know it is them, and that they don’t appreciate it. Class clowns think other people all think they’re funny. The truth is they usually have four or five little satellites, who don’t dare cause trouble themselves but enjoy watching them act out. The rest of the kids think they’re dickheads.

I think naming people is too much

Herculepoirot2 - but what on earth is the point when he only has a couple more days with those 70 pupils? Why would he care what they think when he's going to be with new classmates. Too much too late surely?

And why would it work anyway? If I felt the vast majority of my peers didn't like the way I am, would I mend my ways? Or would I just think 'fuck you' and carry on?

Why would he care what they think when he's going to be with new classmates. Too much too late surely?

It might teach him that his behaviour isn’t funny, or likely to be at his new school.

If I felt the vast majority of my peers didn't like the way I am, would I mend my ways? Or would I just think 'fuck you' and carry on?

Some people might. Most are more susceptible to peer pressure.

There is something very wrong with a school that has such poor discipline and management in place that they don't contact the parents of a child causing problems but decide a public shaming is their first port of call to deal with it.

Four 11year olds posing such a threat to Y6 that all they can think of is to gather the children for a vote.

No mention of it on his school report.

If those children were such a threat to discipline they should surly have been given detention, notes home, parents called long before this?

At my children's schools you wouldn't have to wait long for a phone call for bad behaviour.

I've heard of it happening on occasion that both parents were called from work to come directly because of behaviour that wasn't deemed acceptable.

There is no excusing bad behaviour but it seems like the laziest of options to go straight to public humiliation in an assembly type setting.

I'd talk to them to from a oh we don't want DS to finish school on a bad note and we want to address things before secondary school kinda way and find out what happened cause it just sounds bloody weird.

Herculepoirot2 - do you think it's okay that having failed to manage his behaviour during his time at school, they bypass getting his parents involved and go straight to public humiliation and withdrawing him from end of school events? Surely if his behaviour was that bad the op should have been notified. And if it wasn't deemed bad enough to involve the op, then the school has been completely OTT.

You think communication is appalling in primary school? Wait until he starts secondary in September. The only way you will find out if DS has a detention if is he tells you himself.

You meet teachers once a year at parents evening, and if you want to get in touch with the teachers your email/phone call will get bounced around until it ends up with the right teacher, who may or may not reply as they have hundreds of other children to look after

If you son has low level disruption issues it needs nipping in the bud now. There is a big push towards minimising low level disruption

YANBU to talk to the school about not informing you, its a primary school and they are usually spot on with communication. However with it being the last few weeks of his time at the school there really isn't much point to be honest

The issue here if that your son is continuously disrupting the learning of other students, not that you didn't get contacted about it

Forgot to add, I would talk to the school about naming and shaming pupils in an assembly. Your son has some behavioural issues at school that's fair enough- a lot of children do, but to publicly name him is appalling and an embarrassment technique. I wouldn't be bothered about the lack of contact but I would be bothered that they shamed my son in as assembly in front of everyone. Teachers are not stupid, they know who causes problems and they can hear every whisper that goes on when they're trying to teach. What an awful technique- and that's coming from a teacher