Those of you who have moved to the UAE?

[MonstranceClock]

What's it REALLY like?

A friend has offered me a place on a graduate scheme at double the starting salary that would be offered here, for when I finish my degree.

However, I'm very feminist and have reservations about moving my daughter there. From everything I've heard via the media, from on here and from other sources, it just doesn't seem that safe a country to raise girls in. However, I am aware this could be my own prejudice as I come from an often misunderstood culture myself.

AIBU to dismiss quite a big opportunity because of doubt I have no real confirmation of? Are there any posters here who have emigrated there and have found it to be no where near as bad as it's portrayed.

Hulks I'm not expecting my actions to change the place at all; I'm explaining the reasons why I wouldn't be comfortable going back to live in a place that I do actually love. It's complicated!

I do agree that any change will come from within. Arabs are many things, and one of those things is obstinate AF. Any perceived pressure from Westerners to 'improve' will be met with a polite smile and internal 'fuck you', IME.

Wasn't speaking about you Contessa. You've lived here, so I totally have no issue with you deciding it's not for you. I take issue with those who think I'm somehow less of a feminist or less liberal because I choose to come here.

I take issue with those who think I'm somehow less of a feminist or less liberal because I choose to come here.

It’s both baffling and funny that you don’t see that this is precisely the case!

I now understand Hulks - thanks for clarifying!

It’s both baffling and funny that you don’t see that this is precisely the case!

It's both baffling and funny that you somehow think sitting on your ass in the UK, deep in your myopia, makes you more of one?

How could I go and not take my kids?? Leave them in a kennel??

I've already said its for AFTER my degree.

I've already said its for AFTER my degree.

Sorry, I mis-read that. The use of "graduate scheme" is a bit odd.

As I said up-thread. As long as you have documents testifying that you have sole custody of your children you shouldn't have an issue. If their father is still in the picture, he will need to sign off on these. But you aren't the only single mom working in the UAE. I know a few.

You will also need to consider transportation and childcare. Flexible hours are starting to become more common, but traffics a bitch here and trying to work and do the school run is pretty impossible, unless you hire a driver and a live in Nanny.

My family chose for DH to be a SAHD as the costs of childcare and school run outweighed what he was earning.

I'm thinking it is likely I will choose a different country to work in if I can.

It is a graduate scheme, there's no other way to word it.

It is a graduate scheme, there's no other way to word it.

Ok googled it. In Canada we would call a graduate scheme graduate training. Tis an issue of different slang. :)

Good luck finding work.

Oh I see. (English isn't my first language!) Definitely a scheme here in England.

OP please tell me it’s not a “graduate scheme” linked to the finance/investment/pensions industry.

I’ve heard many tales like yours over the years.

Most on here aren’t having a go at you, but you do sound very naive and we’re only trying to help as it’s not just you but your two tiny children who could find themselves “up the (Dubai) creek without a paddle”.

I'm not naive. Thanks.

Im just asking what people who live in UAE think of it. It's everyone else thats going on about the graduate scheme.

It's both baffling and funny that you somehow think sitting on your ass in the UK, deep in your myopia, makes you more of one?

You go get ‘em OP!

what they think of it*

Women are very safe in the UAE - there are separate areas for them to wait in public buildings, and to sit on public transport.

But I would hazard that women in the UAE are not safe in their own domestic situations, with little or no redress in law. Which kinda knocks the stuffing out of any argument that social segregation is a beneficial thing for women.

No comment on the political agenda, but this whole stereotype that you are treated as second class because you are a woman annoys me.

Then you are blind as a bat. There is no "prejudism" in stating the fact that women are treated as second class in the UAE. You are ignoring concrete facts such as male guardianship, divorce rights/khul, non-existent DV laws, the threat of zina charges to women reporting sexual assault ...

So sorry that you have had to endure a few seconds of "annoyance" because other people are not prepared to ignore those facts like you are.

But I would hazard that women in the UAE are not safe in their own domestic situations, with little or no redress in law. Which kinda knocks the stuffing out of any argument that social segregation is a beneficial thing for women.

And you only have to read MN for a day to realise that women all over the world, including the UK, are not safe in their own domestic situations with little or no redress in law. Silly to point it out as if it is a reason not to go to the UAE. And as others (including myself, have said upthread), the social segregation not just for the "benefit" of woman, it is for religious and cultural reasons for men AND women. Just because it doesn't feel right to you, doesn't mean it is wrong.

I’ll leave others who have never visited to savage the place

This 'armchair warrior in the Home Counties' thing comes up again and again on these threads, despite there being people who point out that they've lived there for substantial periods and are coming from a position of knowledge.

Worth pointing out to those who are terribly impressed about the women-only queues and carriages, that Princess Haya junior wife of the ruler of Dubai has apparently fled to London, where she is living under huge security in fear of being kidnapped by her husband, who is seeking custody of their two young children.

She is the third female member of Sheikh Mohammed's immediate family who is known to have attempted to escape, but the only one to be successful.

Two of his adult daughters from other marriages have also attempted to escape, Sheikha Shamsa running away from one of his UK racing properties in 2000 and staying on the run until she was allegedly picked up by his security staff and taken onto a private plane to the UAE (which was investigated by the Cambridgeshire police force), and more recently Sheikha Latifa, who crossed the border to Oman in 2018 and tried to escape by sea before she was also intercepted and taken back to the UAE. The video interview she made about her life in the al Makhtoum palaces in Dubai makes for very uneasy watching and was broadcast as part of a BBC documentary 'Escape from Dubai: the Mystery of the Missing Princess' - links below.

You might wonder what Emirati royal squabbles have to do with you, but Sheikh Mohammed is the absolute ruler of Dubai which is not a democracy and this is what he does to the women of his own family.

Detained in Dubai also contains links to less high-profile cases/miscarriages of justice.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/06/dubai-princesss-flight-london-diplomatic-crisis-princess-haya-sheikh-mohammed

www.freelatifa.com/

www.detainedindubai.org/

To anyone who is currently living in Dubai, what's the word on the ground about Princess Haya and Latifa? When I lived there things that never made it into the media circulated via an often very accurate rumour mill.

Silly to point it out as if it is a reason not to go to the UAE

Entirely on-point & in context, as the OP posited reservations in her first post about having feminist doubts about potentially raising her daughter there.

@VividFaces it's scary isn't it?

Slightly off topic, but I work with some children from Abu Dhabi. They are absolutely delightful. They're the only children who don't want to play outside during break though ... not sure they'll ever adapt to the Scottish weather

Entirely on-point & in context, as the OP posited reservations in her first post about having feminist doubts about potentially raising her daughter there.

Then the only place left for her to emigrate to is an Island with absolutely NO other inhabitants. She should possibly move from her own street, probably her own town, definitely her county and absolutely the UK if she wants her daughter to grow up in an environment where women are safe "in their own domestic situations with total redress in law".

Having lived there I can say for sure that there ARE problems with women not having equal rights in their husband's eyes, but I can say that about every other country in the world. Domestic violence DOES happen in the UAE, but it also DOES happen in the UK. Having worked in a huge company in Dubai, I can happily say there were lots and lots of local ladies happy, loved and most importantly respected in their family home, either by their fathers, brothers or their husbands if they were married.

May I ask how long you lived there for, whereabouts and when?

@SoundsAboutRight you are absolutely right to point out that women all over the world suffer from domestic abuse. But women in the UK are protected by the law. Don't know specifically about UAE but I worked in Egypt for a long time. We had a colleague who was married to an Egyptian. He started beating her up, so we helped her move out. He got the police to fetch her back because a man can do that in the country. Fortunately for her, he eventually said he was sick of her and put her on a plane home.

@SoundsAboutRight I also heartily agree with you that there are lots of women in Arab countries whose husbands love and respect them. My dh is Arab and he and his friends are extremely respectful of women. However, there's nothing for women who have the bad luck of marrying a bastard unless she has a supportive family who will defend her.
We had a friend from Egypt who married a guy from the UAE she'd met at uni. Once they married and moved to Dubai, he started hitting her. Luckily her dad was an ambassador and well connected in government. He managed to use his connections to get her out. Otherwise she may have been stuck there