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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that Home Educated children should be inspected every year?

549 replies

jennymanara · 14/07/2019 18:18

I think home education can work. I know a fair number of parents who are home educating from some who teach their kids to those who are unschoolers.
But I also think there are parents who home educate who are not up to the job and claim to be unschooling, but are in fact just educationally neglecting their children.
There should be an annual inspection of all kids being home schooled. This should check that children are actually getting some form of education, and not just left for example to play minesweeper all day, as one single mother I knew did with her teenage son.

OP posts:
ohrainydays · 16/07/2019 17:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hiddenmnetter · 16/07/2019 17:25

This is classic statist reliance- there’s a potential problem so let’s make a rule that really only hammers those who aren’t actually a problem! As has been mentioned in the absence of clear stats there is no suggestion that there is sustained systemic abuse of HE provisions, so why introduce more civil servants to monitor it?

It’s like compulsory school attendance. You get some shady stats that suggest a correlation between attendance and performance (and perform minimal qualitative and longitudinal analysis) and on that basis, while attempting to help those who perform badly because their parents are neglectful or disinterested in their education, make a rule which only really hammers those who play by the rules anyway. If you’re destitute and don’t send your kids to school and the LA fine you, it’s not like you can pay or will pay, so who cares? So a rule has been created which does little to address the problem, but which people believe helps for no good reason.

Who gives a shit if the state checks in on those people giving their children HE? Maybe it’ll just become like OFSTED where the parents make an effort one day every 3 years for the inspector and the rest of the time are beating and/or neglecting their children. It does nothing to help and simply adds another weight of bureaucracy to a system that doesn’t appear to have a problem.

One mum let her kid play minecraft all day? It’s not great, I agree, but it is unfortunately her right to do so. If that’s the worst she’s doing then the kid could have a much worse mum than that. It’s such a classic British answer- there should be a government person that stops this kind of thing!

If you want to help that kid, make friends with the mum. Go and help that kid yourself. Stop making it the state’s problem, because unfortunately the state isn’t fit to handle this kind of situation. It requires local communities that know one another and take an interest in one another’s lives. If you don’t care enough to do something yourself, why do you imagine a civil servant will give any more shits than you? All they will do is tick the boxes and carry on.

BaldCape · 16/07/2019 17:29

Rainy days.
I can't keep up this dialogue with you.
Maybe someone else can explain/answer your concerns, because I'm clearly not the man fpr the job.

Namenic · 16/07/2019 17:54

@ohrainydays - Some people object to things for civil liberties reasons - deep suspicion of govt - that it will do something sinister when it has lots of info on people and the info is misused/misinterpreted - like windrush or film enemy of the state.

Some people will forget/not have time to register or whatever and fall under suspicion because of this. Some may have done this because they struggle to cope at home and their kids have been off-rolled by the school. Would people be happy informing the govt of every house move and it all being held in one database? What if someone hacked it (maybe an abusive ex)?

Furthermore any program would need to be balanced against the money otherwise being spent elsewhere for helping vulnerable people (opportunity cost). The question is: will a yearly check pick up enough vulnerable people to warrant the cost? Or should the money be spent on more social workers to monitor more people they already deem at risk but don’t have enough resources to investigate.

Minky3 · 16/07/2019 18:05

@ohrainydays

It is clear you are not making any effort to understand. In fact it’s tempting to believe you are putting effort into deliberately misunderstanding.

As previously explained some LA’s already attempt to deceive their Home Ed community. Pretending that they have the right to:

Enter your home. (Not even just that but without an appointment and to bring others with them)

Monitor your provision.

Speak to your children.

Teach what they tell you to teach, where and how.

Tell you you can’t be providing a suitable education unless a third party such as a tutor writes a report validating your teaching.

To know who the other Home Educators are you interact with.

See your and your children’s medical histories.

All of the above being unlawful. In pursuit of this if you don’t comply some LA’s will maliciously use Social Services, the Police, freeze Child Benefits and heck even someone who claims they showed up to someone’s workplace to try and interview them. Meanwhile spreading misinformation and character assassinating their Home Educators to the point that 80% of the time we are depicted in the media it is with a negative slant.

This is the relationship some LA’s have with their communities. They are not there to help HE’ers or their kids. They are there to try and force kids back into school.

A register will only identify parents who have never sent kids to school who HE for philosophical reasons and parents who have moved LA but not alerted the new LA (which they don’t have to do). In both of these cases it will still be voluntary. If you don’t sign up to a mandatory register you will likely just be fined and then have to face the same risk of harassment as before. Some LA’s will treat you no better for volunteering for a register or for getting discovered. Therefore it will do nothing to help protect any children whose parents are under the radar who are using ‘HE’ to cover abuse or neglect.

If we are defensive and suspicious it is because we have been successfully ‘othered’ from society. No one believes the systemic abuse some Home Educators receive from the very state that’s supposed to be there to support them. Those same arms of the state will not countenance having to actually help HE’ers in any fashion because it costs money. Every kid they force back to school costs them a little less in trying to oversee HE and saves them money. It is not about safeguarding or support for the community it is about a tool to help create cost savings.

Most schooled children’s parents know that schools play a safeguarding role and watch their kids for signs of neglect or abuse. Most parents don’t mind because they get something from the service, an education for their kids, free childcare, a community etc. Would school kids parents be happy to do resent their kids for inspection by teachers etc to examine them for abuse by the parents in exchange for nothing? I think they would feel annoyed and insulted, like many HE’ers feel.

RageAgainstTheVendingMachine · 16/07/2019 18:16

I saw Leave no trace recently and Captain Fantastic last year - found them interesting as it was a nurture debate - whether survival skills/independence/self-teaching could combat the isolation from living off-grid.
I am a teacher and taught for 13 years but I am not sure I have what it takes to home ed. Sadly I might not have a choice if my son's needs are not met. As is the case for many kids with anxiety issues leading to school refusal or autism where they are deemed too high functioning for special school but not able to cope in a mainstream - or you get the triple-edged sword of ASC with anxiety and sensory issues as comorbidities.
I'd absolutely welcome Ofsted with open arms if they were there to support, appeal on my behalf or come up with financial or practical help. I have read about so many parents of kiddies with SN whose kiddies are being off-rolled - I don't think they are choosing to home ed, the government is making that choice for them by not providing any decent alternative or upping funds for SN.
If Ofsted are there just to criticize they can fuck right off - if they can do the job better be my guest. Actually that goes for home ed inspections or mainstream, given that many inspectors haven't actually taught in a classroom themselves in donkeys years!

SmileEachDay · 16/07/2019 18:49

It is clear you are not making any effort to understand. In fact it’s tempting to believe you are putting effort into deliberately misunderstanding

Your lack of empathy with a previously home schooled person is really odd.

SignOnTheWindow · 16/07/2019 19:02

I am here as the VOICE of actual HE children, period

Rainy, you are really not the 'voice of actual HE children'. You are the voice of your experience. You are not the voice of mine.

I am truly sorry that you suffered such abuse Flowers

Notonaschoolnight · 16/07/2019 19:10

I get you op as my only knowledge of homeschooling is the grandchild of my mums friend, the child is a prime example of what your saying the parent simply didn’t want the bother of sending the child to school she wanted them to be able to stay up till all hours get up at lunchtime etc the child is now 14 and can’t read or write

To be fair the child did want to go to school a couple of years ago but didn’t last five minutes when they realised they’d have to spend their days in the Sen unit so now they’ve both given up

Minky3 · 16/07/2019 19:17

@smileeachday

What do you want me to say? That it’s terrible that they were abused as a child? Of course it is.

Does it add anything to this debate? That some kids could be abused by their parents and use ‘HE’ as a screen for said abuse? Sure.

That the current system failed them? I have no idea, I know nothing of the details of the case nor do I want to. Asking someone who has experienced trauma to relive it is normally a bad idea unless you are a mental health professional which I am not. Also as they said they could post the name and address of their abuser if asked I want to avoid the subject like the plague because if they were to do so in the course of this thread they would likely be breaking some sort of law which I wouldn’t want them to do.

That a mandatory register could prevent such a scenario? No it cannot as addressed in previous posts. Also as previously addressed if someone wanted to avoid any scrutiny at all then barring making HE illegal there will always be a way to avoid attention or mask abuse. Most steps that could be reasonably taken will simply make it easier for some officials to persecute some Home Educators with greater ease.

This thread is not about their experiences of abuse. They seem happy to throw accusations of paranoia and wanting to defend potential child abusers around so they seem robust enough to take same points back. This thread is about whether it is reasonable to create a mandatory register for the purposes of monitoring and tracking a minority population whom have broken no laws as if they were criminals on probation just in case they might be criminals stupid enough to volunteer for monitoring of their private lives.

Awaywiththefairies27 · 16/07/2019 19:51

@Minky3 exactly. Well put.

SmileEachDay · 16/07/2019 20:09

Minky

I don’t want you to say anything. I think your reaction was informative.

I wish there was a way of HEs and safeguarding experts working together to ensure no child falls through the gaps that some people use HE to create.

BarrenFieldofFucks · 16/07/2019 20:18

I'm really torn tbh, and I say that as a former home edder whose kids really benefitted from it.

I can see why it is a good idea in some cases and think a brief 'touch in' is a good idea...but equally any abuse can be well hidden. You only have to see how much goes on in the families of schooled kids to realise that.

I can also see why parents are resistant. Many don't want to be judged by Ofsted/NC type guidelines as that is what they are avoiding. Perhaps they think a better way of teaching/learning is possible, and a broader curriculum etc?

Many LA's already overstep their remits, I can only imagine what chaos they could reap with more.

I can well imagine that a family like mine...well resourced, middle class, eloquent and confident would do well at keeping the authorities to their remit and demonstrating that we were behaving. But that doesn't mean that families who don't 'tick' those boxes are doing any worse of a job than we did, but may get scrutinised more as they are further removed from the mould.

So yeah, splinters firmly in arse here. I wouldn't have been that bothered about someone'inspecting' us, but can understand why others legitimately may be.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 16/07/2019 20:24

Did you know lots other HE families @SmileEachDay ? What could they have noticed?

SmileEachDay · 16/07/2019 20:59

What could they have noticed?

I’m not sure what you mean?

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 16/07/2019 21:16

I think a register is a ridiculous plan because I don’t think it adds anything at all. So if there are invisible children are they hidden even from other HEers and if they aren’t what could the people who DO see these children notice?

Is that clearer?

Kaiylee · 16/07/2019 21:22

People who homeschool aren't just ignored. They have to submit yearly reports of progress and what they are doing. There are also currently plans in progress to extend this so they have to provide work samples and other things. Mass inspection of homeschoolers would be a waste of everyone's time. They should just inspect the ones they have concerns about, which I believe is the case atm.

SmileEachDay · 16/07/2019 21:36

I think a register is a ridiculous plan because I don’t think it adds anything at all. So if there are invisible children are they hidden even from other HEers and if they aren’t what could the people who DO see these children notice?

Is that clearer?

Um. Not much.

Do you mean what signs of abuse could other HE people look out for?

BarrenFieldofFucks · 16/07/2019 21:36

They don't have to do anything of the sort, and any LA that say you do are pushing their luck. If you have deregistered from school and as such are known to the LA then they may get in touch annually, but you don't have to submit reports or work etc.

And this is why people don't trust local authorities to implement anything fairly, when each different LA interprets things differently and can't be relied on to follow the law.

jennymanara · 16/07/2019 21:42

@ohrainydays I have had these discussions before. The parts of the HE community that want no oversight don't care about HE kids who are being abused, isolated or educationally neglected. As long as they are left alone to HE without anyone doing even the most basic visit.

OP posts:
jacksonpollockspaintcan · 16/07/2019 21:54

Yes. My workplace has reported concerns about homeschooled children to social services and the education authority. This was where it looked like a case of child safeguarding in more than one instance.

jacksonpollockspaintcan · 16/07/2019 21:55

I mean yes there should be checks, not yes yabu.

Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 16/07/2019 21:57

I too have had these discussions before with HE parents and children and can honestly say that this The parts of the HE community that want no oversight don't care about HE kids who are being abused, isolated or educationally neglected. isn’t anything like the views I heard expressed.

@SmileEachDay I’m sorry I don’t see what you aren’t understanding. If you met other HEers what could they have done to help, or observed. If you didn’t how would listing a group of families you had no interaction with help in similar cases to yours?

jennymanara · 16/07/2019 22:00

@itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis. They say they care about abused, isolated and educationally neglected HE kids, but will not support anything that would actually help.

OP posts:
M3lon · 16/07/2019 22:01

I think I'd be happier to have my child 'inspected' yearly if the same was happening to all children.

Having a special inspection for HE children only seems to be solving a problem that doesn't exist, what with the abuse rates being higher in school children than HE children....

Similarly from an education perspective...I'd be happy to have my child's education inspected yearly as soon as all the school children are having their education inspected yearly....oh and only if there is some sort of reasonable probability that the inspector actually understands the benefits of HE and can understand fully the ways in which it differs from school based education.