To think that Home Educated children should be inspected every year?

[jennymanara]

I think home education can work. I know a fair number of parents who are home educating from some who teach their kids to those who are unschoolers.
But I also think there are parents who home educate who are not up to the job and claim to be unschooling, but are in fact just educationally neglecting their children.
There should be an annual inspection of all kids being home schooled. This should check that children are actually getting some form of education, and not just left for example to play minesweeper all day, as one single mother I knew did with her teenage son.

"Its not about your rights. It is about your child's rights. Your child has a right to a decent education. This is about putting children first, not parents"
@jennymanara

Most of us home educate BECAUSE it is whats best for our children. It would be so easy to pass them of to someone else and have them take responsibility for their education and free up our time . I could get more cleaning done, go shopping on my own, join a gym... work full time so they could spend more time with a childcarer. GOD my life would be so much easier ... and cleaner.
But instead i made sacrifices because it's not about whats easiest for me. It's about what's best for them. A state school could not provide the social opportunities, free play, creative curiosity and specofically cateted 121 tutoring that I do.

But most importantly they cannot provide the unconditional, no strings attached, presence that I Do.

Well said fatjesus

This poll is, of course, skewed terribly - but then those who are voting YANBU have considerably more free time to indulge in spending time on mumsnet, having delegated the responsibility for their children’s education to someone else.

Nonsense Fatjesus
It would be so easy to pass them of to someone else and have them take responsibility for their education and free up our time .

A state school could not provide the social opportunities, free play, creative curiosity and specofically cateted 121 tutoring that I do.

Its really arrogant and controlling to believe that you can do a better job than a state school. My dc got all that from a state school, even 1 to 1 when they needed it (ds was dyslexic and had 121 help through primary). They got to free play after school ,weekends and the playground. They came home and told me of the chats they had with their teachers, and why on earth do you need to " create curiosity"
My dc had access to so much more than i could give them ie The schools Mock Trials competition, Arkwright scholarships, Model United nations, participating in sport and drama (at no cost to me )
I cannot think of anything that i could do better at home, its far better for children to have a variety of input into their education, not just their parent or a like thinking HE parenting group

It would be so easy to pass them of to someone else and have them take responsibility for their education and free up our time . I could get more cleaning done, go shopping on my own, join a gym... work full time so they could spend more time with a childcarer. GOD my life would be so much easier ... and cleaner.
Some of us actually have to work, and dont get time to do those things every day.

This poll is, of course, skewed terribly - but then those who are voting YANBU have considerably more free time to indulge in spending time on mumsnet, having delegated the responsibility for their children’s education to someone else.
No some of us have actually managed to raise children that are actually out at work or travelling the world and we ourselves are working (lunch time) or having a day off.
Its not delegating education to someone else , its not being arrogant enough to believe you can do a better job of your childs education than anyone else.

I home educate and have done for 3 years since the school excluded my son in year 1.
I have applied to every school, mainstream and special in two counties.
I have cried and begged both local authorities for help, support, advice, work for my son to no avail. I have now been told I ‘have’ to home educate and no they won’t provide any help, funding or tuition.

Lol.

Whoops, dunno what I did then, but it selected the last part of my message and blanked the rest. Nvm

@MontStMichel reading your last post was heart breaking.

Bruffin - really not sure what to even say to you in regards of your post... Could you explain what you mean by arrogant and controlling? Are you referring to HE in general, or to individual posters?

I seem to have touched a nerve!
I am not arrogant. I have considerable teaching experience to post-graduate level. My experience has shown me that some students do not learn by conventional methods - it simply does not suit them. My experience has also shown me that however well qualified some people are, they cannot teach, yet some who have no qualifications whatsoever are brilliant teachers. What matters is being able to communicate effectively with the child or student and caring enough to want to help them learn - and on the whole parents who decide to home educate do that rather well. It takes time and effort and compassion. It is not an easy or lazy option - and it certainly is not arrogant.
To expect HE parents to be subjected to inspections is to invade their home - the place their children feel safe to learn - it contravenes their human rights.
If there are reasonable concerns about a child’s safety, or the adequacy of a child’s education then there are already procedures in place. To do more is simply submitting to big brother - heck if the education of our children is to be controlled in such a way the next step is confiscating all children at birth to have them brought up by the state!

Sort of off subject, i.e not to do with a register...

"Don't stay in school" - boyinaband (youtube)

Its, arrogant to believe that you can solely give your child a fully rounded education single handedly.
It's controlling because you are taking full control of your childs education, what they learn, who they meet,who they talk to on a daily basis far more than if they go to school. To me that is not healthy for a child.

I would like to hear from children who are home educated in 10,20 years time rather than parents who are subjecting their child to HE now, who will not admit they have got it wrong.

Its, arrogant to believe that you can solely give your child a fully rounded education single handedly.
It's controlling because you are taking full control of your childs education, what they learn, who they meet,who they talk to on a daily basis far more than if they go to school. To me that is not healthy for a child.

Schools teach you obedience and how to pass exams. Schools assume you must be friends with people in your own year group. Home education can teach all schools can along with life skills, social skills and more. Home Ed groups have children of all backgrounds, abilities and ages. Many go to after school clubs such as gymnastics, guides and scouts. Many have tutors for all different subjects.
Maybe if you weren’t so closed minded you’d meet home educated adults.
Yes SOME parents are rubbish at home education, SOME parents are rubbish in general. That doesn’t mean one way is right and one way is wrong.

Its, arrogant to believe that you can solely give your child a fully rounded education single handedly.
seriously? Have you ever met a HEer?

@bruffin - I can only sugges t that you do some thorough, un-biased research on HE in the UK and elsewhere. I highly doubt anything on a MN forum can convince you otherwise.

I make that suggestion with a rather large pinch of salt; I doubt it'd do any good, but there you go. I can remain hopeful

You can't give your child a full education single-handly

Many primary schools are an example of this. One teacher (maybe a ta) to 30summut kids.

If you include tutors, other parents/relatives, Scout leaders, sports coaches etc (many of which you could describe as an 'expert' in their field, rather than a single primary teacher who knows a bitabouteverything, master of none), I'd say that's a preeeeetty good example of kids' not being taught by a single person.

My HE kiddos are also encouraged to find the answers themselves, research etc, instead of being rote taught. "A good teacher tells you where to look, not what to see".

Its controlling

No more than deciding to chuck your kids in a school from t he off.

You choose what they learn

So do schools. Except many HE will ask their children what they want to learn.

You control who they talk to

Again, so do schools. Kids are forced into classrooms of 30 of their peers all with birthdays within a 12month period, with one adult if they're lucky. They're then told who to like, what to play, what to talk about and when... If that isnt controlling, what is?

Have we got it wrong?

Well, I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Who can really say? I'd like to speak to scholl educated children 10,20 years from now and see how their childhood, or lack of ( I debate whether school =childhood), has affected their adult lives.

“I would like to hear from children who are home educated in 10,20 years time rather than parents who are subjecting their child to HE now, who will not admit they have got it wrong.”

Thanks for helping one of our points. This isn’t about safeguarding. This is about people thinking Home Ed shouldn’t be allowed. That HE is something we ‘subject’ our kids to because we have no interest in our children’s wishes at all obviously. That we will not admit that we have ‘got it wrong’ for Home Educating them; because of course simply engaging in HE means we are making a mistake. This is partly why we want no part of being treated like criminals on probation by default constantly having to prove our innocence to the ignorant.

bruffin I don't think its that we are arrogant in believing we can do a better job than the school system...I think its that people don't realise the most crucial difference between schooling and HE.

The key difference is that in school they teach a large number of kids at the same time and those kids abilities are wildly different from each other. HE is teaching at vastly improved teacher student ratios - in my case 1:1.

Could I teach English and Maths to a mixed ability class with 30 kids in it? Absolutely NO WAY. I have massive respect for teachers who can get anywhere near doing that task. Its insane. But that is irrelevant because I don't have to teach 30 kids...I have to teach one....at her own speed, following her own interests.

So the key question is not, could I teach a class of 30 better than teacher (obviously not), but will my DD receive better education with 1:1 teaching from me, than she would as part of 1:30 mixed ability class. Obviously I think the answer to this is yes, or I wouldn't be doing it.

Improving the teacher student ratio from 1:30 to 1:1 is so massively significant that you don't have to be great (or arrogant etc.) in order for the education process to be improved over the state provided education....

If the state education provide even 1:10 class sizes, I would expect that to tip the balance. But it doesn't.

I really do believe that most people who think this is a good idea really know little about the issues or HE in general. Its amazing some of the things people say to me when they know my Grandchildren are HE. They really believe our HE children do not get sports days or proms or nativity shows or any of the other things in schools - they really do not have a clue. Someone actually said to me yesterday it must be nice for your Grandchildren to play in a group of children instead of just 1 or 2...we were going home as we needed some time at home as we have just come back from an HE festival, where they played with several hundred other children every day for a week from 9am until 10pm - with a level of freedom few children experience in this day and age and definitely not at school.

@Bruffin - actually speechless that after all the recent information on HE people would still hold your views on the limited input into their education. NOONE HE'S SINGLE HANDED - NOONE!!!!!! We all use the absolute plethora of people and services available to us - that you just simply appear to not realise exists.

We recently visited Wroxeter Roman Town and we there at the same time as two school parties, one mainstream and one SN. Not a single child in those groups got even a tiny fraction out of their trip that our children did. Our children's experience was so vastly better in every way it was incomparable to the schooled children's. Theirs was the limited input - few could see or take part in the activities and spent little time there and it was a generalist primary school teacher explaining things to them - not the archaeologist specialising in the Roman Period that spent an hour talking to ours - all free of charge! Likewise when we went to the Sealife centre our children actually got to go round with the staff feeding all the creatures as it was term time and the place was empty - again we paid off-peak entrance but the one to one experience was free!!

Many people may not be able to understand how to access much for their children and therefore they are probably better sending them to school but please do not think that that experience and opinion mirrors that of HE children's actual lived experience because their parents are absolutely able to access far far far more than their children would experience at school. Today - just today - my Grandchildren had the opportunity to attend over 45 different activity groups, including museums, theatres, science events, drama, arts, music, sport - all run by experts in that field - not generalists as teachers in school are and all within 1 hr of our home. Our HE children have more varied experiences in a month than a typical schooled child does in their entire school career. Today they actually decided to stay at home and play board games. We live in a bland nondescript small town in the Midlands - not anywhere special. Once you actually get immersed in the HE community you realise just how much is going on - it is absolutely staggering to newbies, they simply do not realise. We have no more control over who turns up to all these events than you do at school and HE children in general have far more freedom than their schooled peers especially as they get older and their parents have far less control over who they talk to.

Am I arrogant enough to believe I could do a better job of educating my Grandchildren than anyone else - absolutely not I know plenty of people could do it better - but I am intelligent enough to realise than an individually designed personalised education delivered to a child is better for every child - including yours - than a one size fits all education delivered in classes of 25+. And so does virtually everyone else.

State schools are the best way to deliver education in large groups to the masses but few people in the world would agree it is the best education for anyone of the children individually.

My Children HE my Grandchildren so they get the best education available to them in the UK today and we are lucky enough to have the resources to enable us to do so - they do not need to work full time as they were HE themselves and this has ensured they have the skills to earn enough money from part time work to support their home and family.

As I said my children were HE and grew up to travel the world before becoming a dance teacher, a boat builder and a firefighter - so strangely I managed it as well!!!

One other thing I have always found interesting is the high fraction of HE parents who have previously been teachers.

Teachers who have seen the system first hand and decided they wouldn't put their own children into it....

I can't imagine how they are going to react to 'inspectors' telling them they should be putting their kids in school....

Lol, after Minky, M3lon and Basecamps posts, I'd probably not try and argue, bruffin

Oh, and can I recommend @bruffin Sir Ken Robinson's excellent TED talks

"Do school's kill creativity"

And

"How to escape education's death valley"

Maybe they'll open your mind a bit.

coffee I wouldn't declare victory tbh....I mean people have a lot invested in believing farming their kids education off to the state system is for the best...

pointing out its so shocking shit that it actually has different outcomes for kids born in August than September doesn't tend to met with much more than 'lalalala'

Lol I know, but I like to try and be optimistic. I don't wanna point score or be like ha! Told you so!
I d rather somebody understand it, and then decide whether they agree or not.

I wont hold my breath.

I think one of the biggest problems is that people just don't get what HE is. And because it's so different from family to family, it's hard to grasp unless time is spent with them.

I do get the arrogance argument a little at least...I mean if you imagine an HEer is trying to replicate school on their own...then of course they would fail...

Once you realise that you a) aren't doing it on your own, b) don't have to keep a class of 30 under control, c) have all resources of the fecking internet at your fingertips (including everything from wikipedia to online tutoring materials on every topic under the sun) then its really very doable indeed.

The further and slightly harder concept to grasp is that you don't have to know something to support someone else to learn about it.

My DD speaks Spanish significantly better than I do! I genuinely don't need to know Spanish to help her access Spanish leaning on the internet....oh and she chose Spanish because her best HE friends are bilingual in it...and tadaaaaa...because I'm not teaching her in an isolation bubble.

@bruffin
But wait... I'm a highly qualified teacher with nearly 20 years experience so surely you'll agree that I can not only offer my children everything a state school could but that also, if I am competent and qualified enough to teach yours within a class of 30-36 children, then I am also qualified to teach my own on a 1-2-1 has is. Yes?

Once you have agreed to my point- and you have to since its the entire basis of you argument, you should know that I do not utilise any of my classroom skills in our HE and I do not replicate a classroom.e violent at home, since it conflicts with my experience and knowledge of how children "actually" learn.

A teaching qualification and teaching experience is about as relevant to home education as apple bobbing experience is to under water archeology experts.

You can disregard "e.violent". My phone has tried to autocorrect something and I don't know what.