Are state schools beyond help?

[user1480880826]

I see so many threads on AIBU about state schools. There seem to be issues with teachers (specifically the lack of consistent teachers and number of supply teachers), kids behaviour not being dealt with, lack of resources, cost of having to subsidise underfunded schools etc etc.

Is the state school system really as dysfunctional as it appears on mumsnet? Should I be saving up to send my kid to private schools? You don’t see parents coming on here and complaining about their private school.

For those of you with kids in state schools, would you send your kids to private school if money wasn’t a problem?

The self confidence / job success point is interesting - because I am not certain whether it is CREATED by some private schools, or whether the type of family that sends their children to those private schools are already self-confident people who are successful in their jobs and model that to their children?

I don't know whether there is a statistically significant number of children from unsuccessful, not well-educated backgrounds, with parents without self-confidence or good jobs, who have attended private schools to test the hypothesis that the schools themselves create self-confidence / job success?

whether the type of family that sends their children to those private schools are already self-confident people who are successful in their jobs and model that to their children?

I think there’s a lot of that.
And also, if a parent who’s successful in their job has DC interested in that area of work, then that’s likely to give their DC a head start.
Both because that parent is more likely to be able to give their DC useful career advice, because they’re more likely to have useful contacts who can be used to give a DC starting out on their career a foot in the door.

We are the “sort of people who use private schools”. Out children went state. In terms of confidence and attainment they are indistinguishable from their private school friends.

They had a more limited range of sports available to them, fewer MFL. Only one had the chance to take Latin. And many of the things they did outside school their private school friends did in school, which was obviously much easier. But that is obviously what you get for the money!

We are the “sort of people who use private schools”

I don't think they're beyond help, but they're beyond the tweaking and bolt-on new solutions that keep being suggested by politicians and others without a clue.

I wouldn't go private as I think many of the issues in the state sector are found in many particularly smaller private schools (some that are also collapsing) which is what is in my area.

I've home educated all of mine. My DD who is in Y7 this year entered a state school of her own choice and her older sibling will be going to a state college this September for their new KS4 course. I've had no complaints about her school, but like noblegiraffe* said, it's difficult to know how much a game face nice seeming schools are putting on.

I do home educate partially because of how much my local schools are struggling and how much my black spot area (no schools better than 'needs improvement' for many years) seems to be being treated like a testing ground for things that fail: constant new headteachers with new ideas and pretty much everything academized really early (sometimes an infant and junior school on the same site in different MATs). My lodger works at two and he's just been ground down and seeing many of the other staff - particularly TAs, library and tech staff having their hours cut to the bone if not tossed entirely - and kids with SENs being given tablets by teachers who haven't a clue how to use this new fix-all solution has made him start moving towards leaving education entirely.

We've had three new schools in the last 5 years and the two that have had an OFSTED check came out as inadequate, one of those isn't having a new intake this September. We're holding hope for the 3rd which my daughter attends, but it's just a new CoE secondary, it isn't really trying to be anything particularly new or gimmicky and the academy group it's in is just other CoE schools in the same area. While not religious at all, I think the school having that support might help them as all the other new ones were pretty stand-alone even when meant to be part of bigger countrywide networks (the one that isn't taking new students this year used to brag about that).

I think one of the most telling outside of the schools themselves, many which are putting on a brave face, is that my DH works in hospitality and they have had multiple ex-teachers jumping to barely above minimum wage jobs (less than £10 per hour) to "recover" - their word that has come up a lot. One lovely lady came in balding from stress. When dealing with sometimes drunk, belligerent, entitled strangers' safety and wellbeing is the relaxing option, there is a bloody massive problem. Yes, a child's education should be more important than helping someone's trip, but really, hotel work shouldn't be a lifeline for teachers being burnt-out-to-a-crisp, but it seems to be and has for the last few years here. I mean, one of the hotels has been attacked by arsonists repeatedly and it's apparently still better...

I think there’s a UN law forbidding a government monopoly on education so I’m not sure how Corbyn and co will get round that - if indeed the UN can enforce it

What law

Iggly

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

The right to education is enshrined in Article 26 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

1. The States Parties to the present Covenant undertake to have respect for the liberty of parents and, when applicable, legal guardians to choose for their children schools, other than those established by the public authorities, which conform to such minimum educational standards as may be laid down or approved by the State and to ensure the religious and moral education of their children in conformity with their own convictions.

@Dapplegrey

That is not a law against the monopoly of education by the state 🤦🏻‍♀️

My daughter is in year ten and has just got her key assessments results and has 7/8/9.. mostly 8 so there must be good schools .. all her friends have similar grades too .

Iggly do you mean it’s a recommendation as opposed to a law or that the UN aren’t opposed to a state monopoly of education?

Because of comparable outcomes, the grade boundaries are set so that the same proportion of kids gets grades 7,8,9 each year regardless of actual standards.

My DD went to a state school in the bottom 10 percent.
Yes the behaviour was horrendous and the building was falling apart, but it's what you make of it and DD absolutely loved her time there and came away with much better grades then expected and a much better all rounder. The teachers were great and if a student tried most of the teachers would do everything they could to help.

No I read it as a human right to an education of a minimal standard. And that parents have a right to choose.

Ours are great. The problem is funding cuts.

to choose for their children schools, other than those established by the public authorities,

Iggly is that not allowing for choice of school other than those run by the state?

It says “when applicable” just before your quoted sentence.... so, if a parent chooses a non-state school, it should conform to minimum standards. That’s what it is saying.

So in the case of the UK, private schools and home schooling must meet minimum standards.

Ah I understand. So the state could have a monopoly on education which sounds far from ideal especially if there was a far right or far left government.

It depends where you live
Do some research into the local schools and bear in mind you have NO choice unless you are genuinely holy

I start a child at my 3rd choice secondary school so have Concerns but honestly more around the kids than the school to be honest

Where I live there are two secondaries which are Ofsted 'good'. Primaries are 'good' and 'outstanding'. I had no concerns at all with DS's education and I'm sure it would have been fine had he not got into our first choice schools.

We are fairly close to a couple of other authorities, about 5 miles away where the choice of schools is not so good. However for secondary age here we do have the opportunity of state grammars if the children have the right aptitude. Unfortunately I think there are a lot of parents who live close to one of the not-so-good schools who pay for tutors for their DC to pass the entrance exams but who then struggle keeping up Day to day.

I'm just grateful that I live where I do.

Would I pay for private schooling? Not where I live no. I really don't like the idea of children getting to mix only with other children with the same socio-economic background that they come from. But would I pay if I could afford it and the local state school had a really bad reputation? Probably yes.

@noblegiraffe .. some of the grade boundaries are very low but surely if she is getting the top grades comparatively then that's all that matters ?

I am not British, and the state of the British state education sector was a nasty shock for me.
Positive comments on this thread were about pastoral care, diversity, preventing knife crime etc, which are all good things, of course. But how on earth can these schools prepare the next generation to compete in the global world? The syllabus is so weak.

But how on earth can these schools prepare the next generation to compete in the global world? The syllabus is so weak.

The lack of consistency/standardisation is also a real problem. My son (17) has NEVER had a single proper lesson of computing and that's a national disgrace. Everything he has learned and been self taught or just picked up. IT is the biggest threat and the biggest opportunity, but schools seem to take it upon themselves whether to bother teaching anything at all, or if they do, teach it haphazardly. It should be on the national curriculum and given as much importance as Maths and English. It's like some schools are stuck in a time warp and just choosing to ignore modern life, the modern workplace, etc.

kazzy it’s not that some schools are stuck in a time warp, it’s that you can’t get computing teachers for love nor money.

It doesn’t matter if computing is on the national curriculum or not, because academies, which most secondary schools are now, don’t have to follow it.

People paying a lot of money are more reluctant to say they're making a mistake.