to not want to sign off my emails with preferred pronouns?

[AlphaBites]

We've had an email do the rounds today at work saying in the next few weeks all staff are expected to sign off with their preferred pronouns, to save any embarrassment for any staff.

I don't want to.

Can I fight this somehow?

The singing and recipes when faced with different viewpoints does a banging job of turning some people the other way so to speak, not sure why that's hard to see

Did I say it was? I doubt it's ever unpeaked anyone. As you probably realise.

"Wow, I suddenly realised that men claiming to be women are actually not, but the fucking singing and recipes on Mumsnet makes me question this obvious reality...."

And no recipes I don't think? Unless you count the kumquat, orange and kiwi salad mentioned earlier.

The kumquat and oranges was pretty random food flung in to the conversation tbf

I doubt it's ever unpeaked anyone
Me for one.
And I know for a fact others have been unpeaked so to speak by threads, as they've told me so.

That's just it though,surely? People presume when they could be completely wrong.

So what if they are wrong though? What actually happens? Nothing, just thoughts in my head. But that’s the danger-thoughts must be controlled! Can’t have someone thinking the wrong thing!

What happens if I think a Chinese person is Malaysian? Nothing. Just thoughts.

What happens if I have a Polish surname and someone thinks I’m Polish but actually it’s because I’m married to a Pole? Nothing. Just thoughts.

Bear in mind what happens with unisex names-I have a unisex name and the default presumption is male. Do I care-no but I suspect that is because I’m not trying to convince anyone that I’m the opposite sex when I’m clearly not.

The thoughts in my head belong to me and don’t need policing by anyone. There is such fragility when you need to police people’s thoughts. Mental illness basically.

I just can’t believe midwives are parroting this rubbish, @RosesAndRaindrops.

I’ll happily use whatever pronouns or names people want no problem at all but I honestly can’t believe a midwife going on about pregnant men. Come on it’s just lunacy. You might think there’s more to being a woman than your genetics/genitals but pregnancy is female! That’s not “transphobic” that’s a biological fact!

And “assigning sex at birth”

Really? Maybe I’m a simple soul and I’m not a MW but I thought if a baby was seen to have a penis it was male and if not, female. How’s that “assigning” anything? I mean I could get it if no one looked at the genitals and just hazarded a guess as to how girlie or boyish the baby looked before recording its sex, but that’s not how it works?...is it?

I just can’t believe midwives are parroting this rubbish

I suspect they've Self-IDed as a "midwife". And also Self-IDed as "not a cunt". And as we know, saying the magic words now makes it literally true, and material reality has to give way

I used that language because you have all reduced womanhood to having a vagina and breasts or not having a penis.

But this is literally ALL womanhood is. Biological reality.

REAL midwives should present newborn babies with a truck and a doll and assign their gender based on which one they puke on first.

So men would think they were being erased as a whole because of a few who were trans?

Nope, but men are also erased if the definition of man is reduced to a set of stereotypes. This is undoubtedly less urgent than for women, but sex stereotypes harm men too.

The difference is that no-one tells men to just be nice.

It’s a shame @MNHQ deleted that post. I think threats and abuse of that nature should be left to stand so that people can see what women are up against when we refuse to submit to the totalitarian ideology that genderists espouse.

Indeed. We often point out that transphobic quotes are deleted quickly, but it's worth noting that a lot of the deletions on these threads are abuse by Genderists.

The are relatively few Genderists on MN, I wonder why they make up such a large proportion of the deletions?

Mind you, there are not many transphobes on MN, but they get deleted a lot too. Perhaps the too groups have more in common than they think?

I used that language because you have all reduced womanhood to having a vagina and breasts or not having a penis. For me, my anatomy is not what defines my womanhood. It may have shaped my experiences, but not in a way that can be generalised so specifically that it excludes people who do not have the same anatomy as me, regardless of their assigned sex at birth.

So, as a midwife and without reducing us to having a vagina or womb, how do you define the group of humans who have ova? What word do you use to collectively describe these people whose medical needs are different from those who produce/may produce/have produced spermatozoa?

As a midwife you will know that nobody is 'assigned' a sex at birth. The infant's sex is observed at birth. In the case of any ambiguity the infant's genetic markers will be observed in order to correctly identify their sex.

Worryingly ill-informed for a midwife.

It's the madness of the whole thing that gets to me. DC says, I'd like to be a dog/invisible/have longer legs/have paler skin/be a wizard etc etc and the response would range from laughter to a talk about realities and loving yourself for who you are. DC says I want to be the opposite sex and are being told that this is possible and are taken to gp.

It is absolutely not possible to change sex. You can decide that you don't want to conform to societal stereotypes and present differently from your actual sex and that is really no problem. But I was brought up not to lie so I'm not going to pretend to anyone that that means you are now the opposite sex and I'll call you by your name but I'm not using any gender pronouns that are incorrect.

I wouldn't do this, unless my job depended on it. I will be polite and address another person as they request, but I'm not going to involve myself any further in the whole 'identity' issue.

SEE for me saying woman is about more than the sexual organs implies a female brain or female personality which is dehumanising in the extreme. And factually wrong.

ALL that I experiance as a woman is either biology or false assumptions based on biology.

Hasn't this been sort of a thing for decades? I remember learning how to write a letter when I was at school and we were taught that the correct way to sign off a formal letter was

Yours Faithfully/Sincerely

Decomposing Composers (Mrs)

Or Mr/Miss/Ms

So you were signalling your sex and marital status. Why is this so different?

Decomposingcomposers fortunately in the intervening decades we haves learnt that marital status is no indication of how well you can do your job.

Antecedent

addressing a cis woman

What's the point of 'cis' here? You're never going to be assisting a transwoman in giving birth.

my anatomy is not what defines my womanhood

Okay, define 'woman'. Is there a 'womanly' way of feeling? Am I not 'womanly' if I reject a lot of feminine stereotypes?

I'll share every thread on it here in a group on FB who work to ID transphobes and out them to their employers. They are very successful at it too

You sound nice.

Tg that thing that has been done for decades is now out of date, who would want to go backwards

No titles on emails either

I find this all really depressing. The manipulative language it is cloaked in “be nice be nice be nice what do you mean you’re saying no you f ing bitch a k a I’ll have your job” is so familiar to women.

Anyone remember being a teenage girl “I’ll only put it in a little bit...I smoke menthol you won’t get pregnant...don’t you love me...ah you’re frigid anyway”. Same mentality.
Men have never been teenage girls and never will be so they don’t get this.
I shall be making this point if this dog shit ever comes in at my work place.

One of my DCs prefers They. Both of my DCs are not straight. Tiny things make big differences.

I’ve just finished RTFT. I know this comment was way back but I didn’t see anyone asking the question I want to ask. BringOnTheScience, sexual orientation has nothing to do with pronouns, just like LGB has nothing to do with T. Why do you think it does?

See, as much as that poster was well out of order (horrible to threaten to dox people)

I laughed when this was posted, and I laugh when I see it quoted. I suspect the poster doesn't know how clear it is, from those words, that they don't give a shiny shit that we're being threatened.

How come all these kind supportive nice inclusive people don't visit men's boards, and lecture men about the fact that their penises aren't important?

So how do you formally address someone without using a title?

And you don't have to provide your marital status if you use "Ms". I thought that was the whole point of it?

And yes, you might say that the centuries old practice of using Miss/Mrs/Mr when addressing people or signing off a letter has now gone but it appears that actually there is a desire for a way to identify those that we are communicating with. Hence, the push to include pronouns.

If you really don't want to include gender specific pronouns what is wrong with you/they/them?