to not want to sign off my emails with preferred pronouns?

[AlphaBites]

We've had an email do the rounds today at work saying in the next few weeks all staff are expected to sign off with their preferred pronouns, to save any embarrassment for any staff.

I don't want to.

Can I fight this somehow?

SDTG Nailed it, thank you

Absòlutely agree butters, it is depressing that the female sex is under attack. If you yourself are female, you should be supporting your sisters!

Sorry for fancy o!

Butters you asked why it bothers people. You got a comprehensive answer exactly why. Are you depressed about the thread because of the answer to your question? Or are you depressed that you actually have to asked the question in the first place?

The problems about enforced language around pronouns are very well documented on here and elsewhere, open for all to read.

And I guess thats why Mumsnet have had to release a statement and why it gets such a bad reputation. The amount of misinformation, assumptions and language on here is what I find depressing.

@slocombeporter I support my sisters, and that includes my trans sisters, my queer sisters, no non binary sisters.

*and my non binary sisters.

Thanks SDTG for that true but bewildering sumation.

You could argue it was a little bit virtue signalling from the company but also - if it makes just one person feel more comfortable at work, why not let it slide?

Did you read the thread, Butters? Genuine question, not being snarky.
Because there's a lot about gender issues at work in there, a lot of research about how it is regressive to state your gender at work, because it leads to discrimination.

Thanks sdtg

Great post

Butter83 hope you supporting Yaniv in his quest to get women to wax his lady balls. After all Yaniv is a sister

I dont know enough of this Yaniv case, but in my experience most waxers still work on men anyway - back sack and crack anyone?
If an employee was uncomfortable with waxing a scrotum (which there could be a myriad of reasons) then I think its fair to decline. Not because the person is trans.
It sounds like Yaniv is a trouble maker and trying to prove a point. They in my opinion, cause these issues for the majority of trans people who wouldnt act like this.

Does Your Majesty count? Being gladly out of the workplce I don't really know what this is all about. Anyone willing to explain?

I support my sisters

Support them in what?

So you support Yaniv suing 16 women, most of whom are Sikh, one of whom, at least, has learning difficulties, and force them by law to touch Yaniv's penis?

Or Karen White? Convicted rapist, sent to a female prison where they attacked four women? You support this 'sister' too?

Because we're not talking about getting pissed off over minor things, here.

Butters83

But you're saying they can refuse on the grounds that he's male? The whole point is no he isn't.

Let's take a less obvious example, in that case. If you had a parliament made up of 50% men and 50% transwomen, would you consider that a good outcome for gender equality?

Well...you are? Because 99.9% of trans people would never act in the way you suggest above.

The original OP asked how to avoid using pronouns which literally do not effect her in the slightest.

The rare cases were men are exploiting the situation need to be handles with common sense.

@datun but - that would NEVER happen? So its a strange comparison to make? Trans men and women make up a minority of this country.

The rare cases were men are exploiting the situation need to be handles with common sense.

Common sense. Ah yes. That well-known, effective tool, for getting men to not break the law or predate on women.

Putting a rapist in a women's prison, unfortunately, was not something that was conditional upon common sense.

But Butters - these circs are becoming less rare, as TRAs become more entitled and supported by people who would be inclinded to 'let it slide'. It is a question of protecting sex boundaries - these things weren't put in place because we were bored. They were put in place to avoid exploitation of the vulnerable by abusers.

The Yaniv case merely illustrates this.

@datun but - that would NEVER happen? So its a strange comparison to make? Trans men and women make up a minority of this country.

So your answer to the question is it's not likely?

But if it was likely, you would consider it acceptable?

How likely do you think it would be that a man who expressed an interest in 10-year-olds menstruating, could also take 16 women to court for not touching his penis??

Let's take the Labour Party women's officer. A position that it was filled by a 19-year-old biological male. Do you agree with that?

Butters you have spectacularly missed the point. Self ID allows any man - ANY man - to state they are a women and have the full force of the law behind them to insist on access to women's spaces. There is no difference between a man stating he is a woman because he feels like it, or a man stating he is woman because he feels like it. See? Nobody can tell which one is an abusive man and which one just wants people to call him 'her'.

And you are not allowed to distinguish between them at all.

@mrpan -

This comment from The Washington Post sums it up better than I can articulate

'Still, it’s certainly true that most transgender people aren’t trying to force random women to wax their balls, and most of us gay people are content without chasing down Christians and forcing them to bend to our will. So it’s important that we view these cases not as warnings of a pending LGBT apocalypse, but rather as isolated incidents that pose troubling philosophical and moral questions.'

So this is the issue. These incidents are what need to be addressed, rather than just condemning all trans people under one brush under the fear that these isolated incidents will become more and more common. Its exactly the same argument people used to use around gay sex.

But it can’t be addressed as any man can say he is a woman under Canadian law

So it can’t be addressed

And as Yaniv said live in an interview it’s fine for a 12 year old girl to see his genitals as he is a woman under Canadian law

These incidents are what need to be addressed, rather than just condemning all trans people under one brush under the fear that these isolated incidents will become more and more common. Its exactly the same argument people used to use around gay sex.

No one condemns all trans people. The same as no one condemns all men. Transwomen are men, with exactly the same crime patterns.

Furthermore, anyone can say they are trans. Every single predator in the country can say they are trans. So you're not talking about condemning all people, you're talking about every predator in the country being given license to predate.

The crimes of voyeurism and peeping Tom cease to exist.

It is you who is condemning all women in the country. For a handful of men.

And it's nothing like being gay. The trans ideology is deeply homophobic. When you have lesbians being pressured into sleeping with male born individuals with penises, you don't have the moral high ground to compare it to the gay rights movement, I'm afraid.

God, Datun, you're good. So clear and unambiguous. Thank you

Jeremy Corbyn sees nothing wrong with a transwoman taking up a place on Labour's all woman shortlist for selecting MPs. Please explain how this is fair, given that males are over represented already in Parliament. Do you see this as brazen opportunism or not?