How many women has this happened to (maybe triggering?)

[Mad8NR1]

I've just watched Dark Money on BBC1 and it's left me wondering. V different circumstances but it did bring up some stuff.

I started having sex much sooner than I should have, when I was 14. With much older men. Several men over the years between 14 and 18, not loads. Some were 18, some in their late twenties (when I was 14).

At the time I thought I was being very grown up, but I was also very uncomfortable with it at the same time.

I had a mental health crisis a year or so before this started so was quite shakey in the world. I was absent from school due to this for over a year and in that time my parents tried to encourage me to do things I was interested in. That meant theatres and music. I was given more freedom than a child that age should be, I think because my parents were frightened of stopping me doing things I had some enthusiasm for. I don't blame them, though I do think they should have had a tighter grasp of things. They did their best in a tough situation.

The men I was involved with were all theatre/music people. They all knew each other in some way. Some of them were known to my family, though not that well. Others not. None of them have gone on to be famous or anything, but one or two are very succesful in other fields.

Some were more coersive and manipulative than others. One tried to get me to be in a (dodgy) film. Topless. To which I said no.

Over the years I've come to understand that I was quite vulnerable and they probably took more advantage than I realised at the time. And I know what the law would say. But I've always felt iffy about how to label these 'relationships' (if you can call them that).

It led to a lot of problems for me and further mental health issues. I felt shame and guilt and a distorted sense of who I was as a person, where my value and self worth lay. It still does to an extent. Luckilly I am married to a wonderful, gentle, respectful man of integrity who I met over a decade later and is the only person who knows about any of this stuff.

And it just made me wonder, how common is this?

Sorry if I upset anyone. I'm still trying to unpack it all I guess. I've had psychological help for other things over the years and it's touched on this but never fully explored it.

Thanks for reading this far and sorry for the long post.

I was given tremendous freedom from an early age. My parents barely knew what I was up to most of the time but I wasn't having sex with predatory men. Was more interested in hanging out with my mates. Surely it's a mind set rather than your parents giving you too much freedom.

I was given tremendous freedom from an early age. My parents barely knew what I was up to most of the time but I wasn't having sex with predatory men. Was more interested in hanging out with my mates. Surely it's a mind set rather than your parents giving you too much freedom.

I wouldn’t put it down to your superior mindset.

I think it’s more down to sheer blind luck that you came from a stable home with no abuse or drama, and so therefore were less vulnerable to predators; and, you were lucky not to cross paths with any predators.

So frankly you can sod off with your victim-blaming tone.

Vulpine What mindset is that?

@Vulpine

Maybe you weren’t brought up to feel like you were a worthless piece of shit.

You're totally right, Vulpine. You are an unusual and unique human being, a strong woman who simply has more self respect and intelligence than us weak minded slags. If only we had a tenth of your wit, poise, and common sense, perhaps we would not have found ourselves in such situations at a young age, silly girls that we were. Then we too could spend time trawling the internet to inform groups of traumatised women how we are better than them

Lets assume that's not what Vulpine is saying unless we know different.

So far there's been a refreshing absence of women bashing each other on this thread.

Lets assume that's not what Vulpine is saying unless we know different.

But that is what Vulpine is saying. That she avoided being preyed upon by men because of her mindset. The implication being that if all of us who were a abused, groomed and taken advantage of had just had the same mindset as her, it wouldn’t have happened to us.

It’s putting the responsibility for not getting raped or abused on the victims and not the perpetrators.

How else are you supposed to read it?

Predatory men choose women and girls because they are vulnerable for one reason or another. If you’re lucky enough to have been brought up with robust self esteem in a stable environment then they will always pass you over in favour of the girl who self harms because she was chronically bullied at school.

So far there's been a refreshing absence of women bashing each other on this thread.

And it’s not ‘women bashing’. It’s a perfectly valid and necessary rebuttal of someone who’s talking damaging bollocks.

There’s always one! Now school holidays are out.

I totally agree, and I questioned the mindset statement. I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Hoping vulpine meant, I dunno, she was secure and had a good group of friends and hanging out with older men wouldn't have occured to her. Not that those things protect or preclude anyone from being abused, but it might make it a bit less likely.

I certainly dont lay blame at the door of anyone other than the men who expoited me. But there were factors that made me more vulnerable. Not sure I'd describe those as my 'mindset' though.

Saying that people who've been sexually exploited, particularly as children, experienced that because of some flaw in their mindset would be hateful out and out victim blaming. I guess I'm hoping Vulpine's choice of language was unfortunate and clumsy.

Vulpine wins the internet today for the most tone-deaf post of the day.

I was 12 when I was first assaulted by a man employed by my extended family. He was looking after the horses I loved. So when he let me work with him (and he was grumpy with other kids) I was in heaven. Little did I know that he was grooming me. I was and once I clocked what was happening I told a responsible adult. The response was: do not go anywhere with him alone. Lesson was: onus was on me to keep myself safe from sexual predators. Suffice to say when I was assaulted at 16 I didn't even bother telling anyone.

Mindset my arse.

Thanks for this thread OP. I read it late into the night last night. Struggled to sleep afterwards as it brought up a lot of feelings. It was needed though as it made me think long and hard how I need to protect my DD from shit I've been through.

Bugeyed I'm sorry it brought stuff up for you. And to everyone else who's said the same thing. I have worried a bit about that.

Hi OP, I'm 25 now and looking back I thought I was so grown up and mature when I started having sex at 13. But now I realise I was taken advantage of because the men were much older. It's a sickening feeling and makes me so angry. I've never told anyone too but I was sexually assaulted by a (male) hairdresser when I was the only one in the salon when I was about 14/15. He was in his 30s and had kids and a wife. It's horrible and I try my best not to think of any of it but I do think it led to a lot of promiscuity in my teenage years which has affected my MH health now. I'm terrified to have kids in case I have a daughter and the same thing happens because let's be honest, the majority of men are predatory to some degree.

Do you remember More magazine? And Just Seventeen? I was allowed to buy and read those magazine and no one (my parents, really) was policing what I was reading. There were always articles and guides for first time snogging, how to give a boy a blow job,’position of the week’, how to find your g spot, etc. But I don’t remember ever reading ‘how to spot a pervert’, or ‘why you should wait until you’re ready’. Those magazines totally normalised the early sexualisation of young girls and made it seem expected. Like I ought to have known how to find my g spot when I was 15???

I recently read a stat that the biggest readership of Teen Vogue in the US is 23-35 year olds. These magazines are paedophilic bibles. We were never the target audience. So much seems so clear now.

@Whackitupto200

You're so right. I would never read those magazines at 18+ as they were too childish. The main content was tailored to 13-16, but they had loads of sexual content.

Very strange and almost preparing young girls for sex and getting girls interested in sex when they are too young.

Surely it's a mind set rather than your parents giving you too much freedom.

I don't think you understand grooming.

@Vulpine
I was given tremendous freedom from an early age. My parents barely knew what I was up to most of the time but I wasn't having sex with predatory men.

This makes you sound unbelievably smug and condescending.

Surely it's a mind set rather than your parents giving you too much freedom.

These are (were) young girls we are talking about. Children. Do you get that? Children are still developing their "mindset" and it is hugely influenced by factors which are completely outside their control or influence.

Imagine how it would go down on a discussion thread for victims of child abuse in the church and someone came along and said "I was an altar-boy too. I was never abused by a priest. It's about having the right mindset (like me). If only more of these children had been like me. We wouldn't have a problem!"

Crass beyond belief.

I was a young starter and all my boyfriends were older. My first serious boyfriend was 21 and I was 15 (I was not a virgin). My parents knew, his knew. My parents were neither really strict nor lax, but my Dad was absent a lot and I spent a lot off weekends with my older sister as my Mum was nursing her sister who was dying of cancer at the time (so we had a free reign a lot of the time). I look back on it now and think it was weird, but at the time it seemed perfectly normal. In the end I settled down at 17 and stayed with the same partner until a few years ago at 38. He was also older by 7 years.

I also went to my first illegal rave at 13 my parents thought I was elsewhere. I think the fact I had a very wayward older sister meant I grew up a lot quicker, but I also learnt from her mistakes. She is still making them 30 years later, I grew up, settled down and do mourn a bit the child hood I missed out on by being involved in things I shouldn't have until I was much older. I felt aware though at the time, I was smart and thought I kept myself safe. I lived in an old market town where many youths spent their time in pubs from a young age. Under age drinking was rife and still is by all accounts. It wasn't the best place to grow up as a kid as there was hardly anything to do, everyone knew each other and nobody seemed to care too much that the teenagers were just dossing about. Bored teens and nothing to do in a sleepy market town!

That said I got my first paid job at 13, and have never been out of work. I did well in school and dont feel in any way damaged by my youth (or by being sexualy active earlier than I should have).

This thread has opened up a can of worms for me. I hope OP doesn’t mind me starting a new thread tomorrow to effectively deal with the emotions.

Sorry to hear this. It was a worry of mine when I started the thread.

Whatever you need to do. I hope you're ok

Despite the cans of worms, I'm glad you started it, Mad. Go read through again; it's helped a lot of people just to have somewhere to say all this with people who understand.

As for that unpleasant diversion around "mindsets" a few days ago - all our minds were moulded, conditioned, effectively programmed, by our parents and by the wider social context. Some of us were programmed really fucking shoddily by parents who should've known better. Some of us had that damage compounded by others later on. Saying that makes what happens our fault is just encouraging us to internalise the blame for other people's fuckups. for everyone who was upset by that interruption.

@StephanieSJW

*Please let's be careful with statements like this. The age of legal consent is 16. The police and courts do however take into account if both the parties are very similar in age (and over 13).

However - this thread has mainly been about fully grown predatory men, sometimes married with their own children, in their 30's, 40's and older having sex with children.

The law is absolutely clear and unequivocal that there is no way a 13 year old girl can legally consent to sex with an adult Male who is much much older than her. The perpetrators can claim "she wanted it" until they are blue in the face. They should still be prosecuted, publicly shamed and put on the child protection register.*

I was merely sharing my experience not trying to defend it. As I said I think the law should be 16 apart from maybe a 2-3 year age gap (so a 13y old and 16y old being the maximum) however my own experience highlights this was not the case.

The man who raped me was in his mid 20’s with a partner and two very small children not close in age to me. I don’t think anything different would’ve happened had he been in his 40’s.
Sorry for my late reply, but I can’t really let that go unanswered. I’m not trying to upset anybody only stating the truth. Unfortunately this is the first case that really rocked my faith in the justice system when it comes to female victims of sex attacks of any kind. It was not the last.

I very much doubt the posters being urged to call the police (My own experiences aligning with some of there’s, though different to the case I mention in my last post) would actually get anywhere