How many women has this happened to (maybe triggering?)

[Mad8NR1]

I've just watched Dark Money on BBC1 and it's left me wondering. V different circumstances but it did bring up some stuff.

I started having sex much sooner than I should have, when I was 14. With much older men. Several men over the years between 14 and 18, not loads. Some were 18, some in their late twenties (when I was 14).

At the time I thought I was being very grown up, but I was also very uncomfortable with it at the same time.

I had a mental health crisis a year or so before this started so was quite shakey in the world. I was absent from school due to this for over a year and in that time my parents tried to encourage me to do things I was interested in. That meant theatres and music. I was given more freedom than a child that age should be, I think because my parents were frightened of stopping me doing things I had some enthusiasm for. I don't blame them, though I do think they should have had a tighter grasp of things. They did their best in a tough situation.

The men I was involved with were all theatre/music people. They all knew each other in some way. Some of them were known to my family, though not that well. Others not. None of them have gone on to be famous or anything, but one or two are very succesful in other fields.

Some were more coersive and manipulative than others. One tried to get me to be in a (dodgy) film. Topless. To which I said no.

Over the years I've come to understand that I was quite vulnerable and they probably took more advantage than I realised at the time. And I know what the law would say. But I've always felt iffy about how to label these 'relationships' (if you can call them that).

It led to a lot of problems for me and further mental health issues. I felt shame and guilt and a distorted sense of who I was as a person, where my value and self worth lay. It still does to an extent. Luckilly I am married to a wonderful, gentle, respectful man of integrity who I met over a decade later and is the only person who knows about any of this stuff.

And it just made me wonder, how common is this?

Sorry if I upset anyone. I'm still trying to unpack it all I guess. I've had psychological help for other things over the years and it's touched on this but never fully explored it.

Thanks for reading this far and sorry for the long post.

Same for me shop owners and people buying me and my mates alcohol etc :( met an older guy when I was 14. It took me 10 years to get away from him. He kept me isolated from everything and everyone I knew.

No one knows this a part from my parents. Not even DH because I'm too ashamed to tell him. I had my DD at 17 to man that was nearing 50. He was a friend of my Mum's and he groomed me. My DH thinks that my DD is my ex husbands child and that's the way I'll be keeping it. My DD just thinks her Dad ran off after I got pregnant but I can't bear to tell her the truth

I lost my virginity on my 16th birthday to a guy that was 18. We'd known each other for years. I was petrified and didn't want to have sex. I can remember just standing there, like a statue, whilst he took off my clothes and put his hands everywhere. He didn't bother to use protection and I was too afraid to say anything.

Mad8NR1 I'm glad it makes sense and is helpful. And it's reassuring to know others are aware of and discussing this issue too. You are very welcome!

Same here. At 13 much older boy/men started taking an interest. At 14 (just) I lost my vaginity to a 19 year old while high on drugs he had given me. It was the same story for many of my friends.

This led to being very promiscuous through my teens.

It wasn't until I was much older did I understand that I had been groomed and prayed upon because I was young and stupid not because I was older looking a mature.

@VixyVixen
Does your daughter know who her dad is? Or does she think someone else is her dad? It’s a can of worms. And I have to say, these things generally don’t work out well. The lie always comes out somehow. I would potentially find a way to deal with the truth with those you love.

@Tyrotoxicity
All of this is great in hindsight and I’m glad it helped you deal with the shame,

But

I am a thousand times more angry with my parents than I am of the men who I thought I was having relationships with. They’re the ones who really let me down.

That’s the bigger and deeper issue in all this. I’ve never met someone who was loved and showed boundaries and felt happy in themselves as a teen and had happy loving parents who this happened to.

And all this it’s illegal bollocks. I mean you try and get someone prosecuted for this. Sex with a older looking mature teen back in the 90s and earlier. You’re in fucking fantasy land, it might make you feel better to be there. But it’s not reality.

I suspect it would help a great many of us if society shifted some of the focus away from 'enthusiastic consent' (which for me as a sexual abuse survivor translated to a requirement to put on a more pornified performance) and started thinking about informed consent

Consent is absolute. It is clear and there is only one kind of consent. A child is NOT able to give it.

These are the legal facts.

And all this it’s illegal bollocks
The law is there to protect children. It's the job of adults to protect children from rape by adults (and let's face it - that is exactly what we are talking about here). From my rough count there are well over 20 cases of child rape mentioned in this thread alone. If the perpetrators are still alive, the police should be informed immediately and these vile men would be arrested today.

Perhaps in the case of the 12 13 year olds.
But you do realise you’re making people (me) feel even more shit about this situation, we’ve just come to talk. And perhaps process that so many others have been in this situation. And all you want to do is say prosecute them all.
If I was raped in broad daylight tomorrow by someone I knew and had been out with the likelihood of prosecution is close to zero.

So actually fuck off with your legal facts. It doesn’t help me. A 40 something year old and it doesn’t help the 15 year old me.

I bumped into the Principal recently and he said “it’s a good job #MeToo wasn’t around then

It"s around now and there are no time limits on how far back the police would be forced to investigate- as evidenced by the successful prosecution of grooming gangs in Rochdale, Rotherham and elsewhere.

What is stopping you from naming and shaming this vile principal? He has admitted to you that he was aware of the abuse that was taking place while he was in a position of power and authority.

Stephanie I agree, a child cannot consent. And it is very important to hammer that point home generally. It is simply that, as a child who was sexually abused, I could not process the trauma in such simplistic terms. It did not accurately reflect my own understanding of my experiences. I felt that I was consenting at the time, and simply being told "You couldn't because you were a child" felt as though I were still not being listened to.

Justbreathing I hear you on the parents front. Mine inadvertently primed me to be abused the moment a predator came along. They can't accept this. It's hard.

Very similar to what happened to me you see, at the time I was just cool, and mature and soo grown up for my age, of course the 17,18,19,22,24,25,30 year old men appreciated how grown up I was.
I didn't feel weird about it until I was about 18,19 and started to realise how young 12,13,14 is.
I now realise how vulnerable and alone I really was. I feel disgusted at how many men tbere are out there like this. I could never report it, but I know what happened wasn't right.

Christ, realising I'm one of those child rape cases has just hit me like a hammer Stephanie. I've known what happened was wrong for a long time of course but that's the first time I've actually thought about it in those terms. I still don't think of myself as the vulnerable child I obviously was at 13, and yet I would be horrified at the thought of that happening to DD (now 10) at the same age, well at any age of course but I would definitely think of her as a child at 13.

I'm struggling a bit with what's being said about parents too tbh. I've always felt I had a good upbringing and that DM in particular was a good parent so the idea that she let me down is a new one on me. I always just though I was trusted and given a lot of freedom and that it was my fault I 'abused' that and got up to stuff I shouldn't have. I assumed the fact that I wouldn't dream of allowing DD that kind of freedom was down to times having changed and me not wanting her to repeat my mistakes, but maybe DM wasn't quite the perfect parent I thought she was. Feel like I have a lot to think over tonight.

Ifelt that I was consenting at the time
In the mass grooming cases mentioned above (Rotherham etc) - nearly all of the defendants tried to make this claim in their defence. Thankfully it was laughed out of court and they ended up exactly where they belong - behind bars.

*Simply being told "You couldn't because you were a child" felt as though I were still not being listened.

You absolutely are being listened to and heard. Say for example a child managed to somehow sign up for a loan or mortgage... As a society we would have absolutely no hesitation I saying to that child - It's OK. It's not your fault. You might think you signed the form of your own free will. But the law dictates that you are simply too young to make decisions like that for yourself. So even though your signature is on that piece of paper - it does not mean a thing"

How come things are so clear cut and simple when it comes to finances and other contracts but not sex?

@Justbreathing My DD knows the name of her Dad and I have shown her a photo. She doesn't ask about him. There's never been any contact. What good would it do her to know the whole truth?

I could never report it, but I know what happened wasn't right

If you were to report it, the police would arrest him and raid his home today, seize his phone and conduct a forensic review of his digital images and search history.

This is the painful hurdle that many victims have gone over. If enough strong women come forward we can start to make men think twice about doing this to any other child ever again.

I look at children at the ages some of you were (13, 14 etc) and I simply want to fall to my knees and weep. I am trying my best to turn sadness into determination. I apologise if this not appreciated.

I appreciate your intent, Stephanie. It's just coming over a little forcefully. Sometimes that's helpful; other times it's not.

How come things aren't clear cut when it comes to sex? Because patriarchy is the short answer. This probably isn't the thread for me to expand on that though.

The Rotherham defendants are a bit of a red herring I think. Many of their victims doubtless did feel, at the time, that they were capable of judging the situation and giving consent. Exploring why they felt that way is perhaps more therapeutically useful, for someone who has already accepted intellectually that she could not consent but still experiences emotional turmoil over it, than simply repeating that children cannot consent.

@StephanieSJW
It’s not that it’s not appreciated, it’s just not that simple. For a multitude of reasons. And it’s very unfair to put all the guilt and blame on us. And that we (or I ) don’t see any positive in prosecution.
I’m just astounded that anyone thinks this is that simple.
The Rotherham cases were perhaps very different from what I experienced, it was systematic abuse.

I don’t know. It’s all very complicated and it’s very hard to deal with in all honestly.

But I was 15 not 13 so perhaps it’s very different.

Have NC for this
From a naice middle class background. Horribly bullied and friendless as a teenager, and as a very alone and freshly traumatised 16/17yo entered a secret relationship with an adult in a position of trust in his mid-20s. He didn’t mistreat or pressure me but I pretended to be ready for things I wasn’t at all ready for and followed through.

I’m now in my early 20s and cannot fathom why someone my age or older would want to be with a teenager.

Hey, OP.

I tried to lose my virginity at 15, I was discussing this with my OH a few nights ago because we never broke my hymen, it was uncomfortable and painful. But if that could count towards my being able to say that's when I lost my virginity, I'd feel happier about it even though I was a few months short of being legal, and the guy was 17.

I lost it officially just after I turned 16, but I didn't actually want to and the guy was in his twenties.

I only know now that I'm a grown up in my thirties with her own kids, that I had major attachment issues, which explain why I pursued sexual interaction with so many men, and by men I mostly mean much older than myself.

I really did kid myself that I was hugely into it, even though I couldn't actually 'enjoy' sex (climax) at all, ever, even with myself (though I was always too grossed out to touch myself; it's the way I was brought up). What I got out of it was the sense of excitement. The build up. The chase, the game etc.

I needed that closeness to someone because I grew up treading on eggshells round my dad and not understanding the world around me because of undiagnosed neurological problems. I was bullied and sidelined and ignored except when people wanted a joke. So I found that feeling of being wanted, using my body.

So. Yes, I was definitely used and preyed on and it was wrong, though barring that first encounter I was legal. But I'd be mortified if this was one of my kids. And one of mine has attachment disorder, which has her behaving in ways which has us and get teachers concerned. She's very vulnerable.

I think young women often want the attentions of older men (unless they're not into men, obviously). We can kid ourselves it's what we want so it's not bad, but obviously (I say obviously a lot) it does reflect badly on older guys who choose to involve themselves with younger girls.

I wish I knew if there was a conversation I could have with my daughter who has the issues, so that she doesn't put herself in this position like I did. I've just got this horrid feeling she will start younger than I did. And she's obsessed with babies... Doesn't bode well.

I somehow got involved with a 22 year old when I was around 14, and sexual activity took place, never full penetration because he’d always want to stop short of that. Maybe he was somehow able to tell himself that it was okay if he didn’t actually have sex with me.

I think it’s very common and it’s really not okay. I don’t feel like I really have any long lasting issues because of it, but I do now see it very clearly for what it was.

@Justbreathing
The blame is never ever on the victim children. This was not your fault. You were innocent. The only people to blame are the men who did this and the neglect of other adults who failed to protect you.

Just Breathing: I am a thousand times more angry with my parents than I am of the men who I thought I was having relationships with. They’re the ones who really let me down.

That’s the bigger and deeper issue in all this. I’ve never met someone who was loved and showed boundaries and felt happy in themselves as a teen and had happy loving parents who this happened to.

Me: Exactly and very well described.
I couldn't have told my parents I'd been molested, we just didn't communicate about such things and they'd have blamed me anyway.

Stephanie

A child victim feels they are to blame.
You tell them they are not to blame.
They still feel they did something wrong, because this sort of mindfuck is rarely resolved by simply saying 'It wasn't your fault.'
There's a very real danger of them deciding there must be something wrong with them for still feeling at fault. There's also a very real danger of them avoiding speaking about their feelings in future, lest they be 'reminded' of this perceived fault.

This is what I meant by not feeling listened to.

But I don't want to get into an argument (this is definitely not the place for it) so I stress again that I appreciate your intentions are good, and I will bow out and go to bed.

Happened to me too.