How many women has this happened to (maybe triggering?)

[Mad8NR1]

I've just watched Dark Money on BBC1 and it's left me wondering. V different circumstances but it did bring up some stuff.

I started having sex much sooner than I should have, when I was 14. With much older men. Several men over the years between 14 and 18, not loads. Some were 18, some in their late twenties (when I was 14).

At the time I thought I was being very grown up, but I was also very uncomfortable with it at the same time.

I had a mental health crisis a year or so before this started so was quite shakey in the world. I was absent from school due to this for over a year and in that time my parents tried to encourage me to do things I was interested in. That meant theatres and music. I was given more freedom than a child that age should be, I think because my parents were frightened of stopping me doing things I had some enthusiasm for. I don't blame them, though I do think they should have had a tighter grasp of things. They did their best in a tough situation.

The men I was involved with were all theatre/music people. They all knew each other in some way. Some of them were known to my family, though not that well. Others not. None of them have gone on to be famous or anything, but one or two are very succesful in other fields.

Some were more coersive and manipulative than others. One tried to get me to be in a (dodgy) film. Topless. To which I said no.

Over the years I've come to understand that I was quite vulnerable and they probably took more advantage than I realised at the time. And I know what the law would say. But I've always felt iffy about how to label these 'relationships' (if you can call them that).

It led to a lot of problems for me and further mental health issues. I felt shame and guilt and a distorted sense of who I was as a person, where my value and self worth lay. It still does to an extent. Luckilly I am married to a wonderful, gentle, respectful man of integrity who I met over a decade later and is the only person who knows about any of this stuff.

And it just made me wonder, how common is this?

Sorry if I upset anyone. I'm still trying to unpack it all I guess. I've had psychological help for other things over the years and it's touched on this but never fully explored it.

Thanks for reading this far and sorry for the long post.

It’s not actually impossible for a child to consent, it’s not black and white like it is in the USA with stat rape.
I say this as someone who was raped at 13 (by a family member)
It wasn’t deemed rape as it was deemed I had “consented” (I bloody hadn’t) so the only charge that was upheld was sex with a family member due to the close relation.
Unfortunately statutory rape doesn’t apply in the U.K. and a 13-15 year old having sex isn’t automatically illegal despite the age of consent being 16.
I’m not saying these men aren’t vile I fell victim myself just saying that calling the police probably won’t do much it’s not as simple as “Children can’t consent” much as it should be. IIRC it’s only automatically rape if the child is under 13.

Angrysquid I just googled what you stated in disbelief and found this.
www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/legal-definition-child-rights-law/legal-definitions/

You are absolutely right. This states that law is not there to punish two mutually consenting under 16s. Implying that under the age of 16 one can consent. I can see a reason for not wanting to criminalise two happy 15 yr olds.

There's no mention of what happens when one party is over 16 and one isn't. Perhaps the law should look at that specifically. As a child is still technically a child until 18, surely anyone under the age of 16 having sex with someone over 18 should raise immediate questions.

Given your experiences op have you brought up your children differently?

As parents we need to raise sons who are not sexual predators but we also need to raise daughters who aren't vulnerable or seeking 'attachment' or 'affection' in the wrong places.

This didn’t happen to me but lots of street harassment as a teen and was aware of other girls with older “boyfriends “ .

So sorry to hear of these experiences. Does anyone have any practical suggestions to protect our girls? Mine 10 and 13 and am terrified. Don’t want to be over strict but the 13 year old has more freedom now obviously.

^^yes. And when I was sexually assaulted and told my parents my Dad's response was 'what do you expect if you put it on a plate for them?' so when I was later raped I didn't tell them. Still haven't. We are a 'happy functional family' now.

I didn’t have sex with my abuser, he was very careful not to do that, but I did do everything but when I was 13-15. He was early thirties, married with two kids who I babysat for.

I was besotted with him and I felt like I was doing what I wanted to at the time but it’s only in the last few years that I’ve accepted I was abused.

Sometimes I google his name to see if he’s been in the papers for doing it to anyone else. I don’t think I would ever report it. Mostly because then I would have to tell my parents. My Mam is still close friends with his wife.

My mum used to tell me not to be a tease. I wasn't provocative, I was quite conservative in my dress really. I liked to look nice. Apparently this was an invitation

And to answer your question Vulpine I have one young son so still very much bringing him up but he will be learning that no one exists for another persons pleasure, treating people with respect and standing up against mysogyny is cool and if a relationship isn't between two equals its not a relationship.

and a 13-15 year old having sex isn’t automatically illegal

Please let's be careful with statements like this. The age of legal consent is 16. The police and courts do however take into account if both the parties are very similar in age (and over 13).

However - this thread has mainly been about fully grown predatory men, sometimes married with their own children, in their 30's, 40's and older having sex with children.

The law is absolutely clear and unequivocal that there is no way a 13 year old girl can legally consent to sex with an adult Male who is much much older than her. The perpetrators can claim "she wanted it" until they are blue in the face. They should still be prosecuted, publicly shamed and put on the child protection register.

Mad that shows so well how important our choice of language is when we're talking to children.

Analogy to demonstrate my point: child A is reacting badly to the presence of child B, because child A isn't getting an immediate emotional need met. Parent asks child B to move out of eyeline as 'it's winding child A up'. Child B knows 'winding up' is bad, thinks they're being accused of doing a bad thing, and gets upset.

I've since started phrasing more carefully, and now ask child B to move away because child A is winding herself up.

Something similar happens with "don't be a tease." "Being a tease" is used to refer to "Doing something which predators will later use to justify their abuse."

Put that way, you can see all the bad feeling, all the shame, all the fault, lies with abusers. Put your mum's way, you're being unwittingly set up to internalise the fault if and when you meet a predator.

Still following this thread with interest and I’m sure I’m not the only one trying to process things I haven’t thought about in years. Everyone’s input has been helpful.

I have daughters and to be honest I'm not 'terrified' because im bringing them up to be like me. I wasn't a vulnerable teenager seeking attention and affection in the wrong places. I had very strong boundaries and still have.

Me - but not in the TV business.

I'd just like to add my experience to the many voices here. It's actually been reassuring in an odd way that there are so many of us.

My story's pretty similar. When I was 14 I became involved with a protest movement and developed a crush on a man who was 18 years older than me - 32. In no uncertain terms he groomed me and tho nothing happened before I was 16, he did tell me that he loved me when I was 15 and encouraged rather than quashed my feelings. It became sexual (although never penetration) - mainly about servicing his desires. It continued until I was around 18. My parents knew him but their attention was elsewhere in the family and they turned a blind eye to the risks. Despite my pleas to go public our 'relationship' was always a secret - people wouldn't understand according to him.

It's only been in the last 6 months that I've realised this was abuse and probably at the root of the depression & anxiety that I've suffered with ever since then. I'm now in therapy trying to undo the damage that he did, but it runs deep despite the fact that I've managed to have a happy, healthy marriage and 2 wonderful children.

 to anyone who's had to deal with this.

I dated a guy my older sister had dated.

I was 13. He pushed me too far sexually, he was 18.

This confused me, along with a difficult relationship with my parents. I then started going to pubs and clubs aged 14 with my older sister (I looked 18).

I then had countless sexual relationships with men aged between 18 and 52 who I never lied to about my age. I began taking speed. Ecstasy and finally met my “soulmate” who left his young girlfriend and two children under 3 and moved me into a flat aged 17.

One day I cane in from work and there was a group of people in the flat injecting heroin with my “soulmate” who then proceeded to do various unspeakable things over the next few years including drugging me and taking my keys and robbing my sister’s business.

I developed a heroin addiction and became homeless.

I regret aborting my child with him but I don’t regret not having someone to link me to him.

I got out of that with support from my parents, and we resolved our issues with time. I recovered from my addiction and, over the years I have found resilience had my own children made my own family, have had a wonderful life, built a career and now work with vulnerable families.

The saving grace was becoming a mother.

I think back now to 14 year old me, being exploited by 52 year old men taking me to casinos and shoving £20 notes down my top and I wish she knew what I did now.

vulpine that’s great that you are bringing your children up to be strong but it only takes the smallest slip, them meeting the wrong person, something happening for that to change. I admire your tenacity but life isn’t something you can always prepare for. I’ve been through it myself and my DC are 10 and 12. Of course I will instil everything I can into them but I’m still terrified. Until I get a crystal ball I will always worry

@Whensomeonewalkspast.

My daughter is the feistiest most switched on person I know.

Shares a flat with her brother, got herself a great job, happily single, does not take one ounce of shit off anyone at 19 yrs old.

It’s who is is but I like to think a little bit of that is because she was brought up by me.

She was praised constantly, believed, listened to and never ignored (only when she was being a bit naughty).

The fact of the matter is that most men would have sex with young girls if they could.

Like it or not, it's a fact.

Your DH, your father, your brother, whoever. If they could get away with it, they would have sex with young girls. It's in their nature. They may not actually do it, but it's not because they don't want to.

If the only thing protecting young girls from them is a social construct then it's clear that there is a big problem, and it's not a new one, and it's never going to go away.

What we have to do is protect our daughters because men are not going to change. That's not to excuse them and their disgusting behaviour in any way, it is simply the practicalities of the matter.

I'm truly sorry that the above will upset many people but they are the sad facts of the matter.

I had a similar experience to most on this thread.

My mum was a prescription drug addict and my dad worked overseas for long stretches of time. We were ostensibly well off and very middle class so no one really noticed that my home life was a chaotic shit show. My mum didn’t care where I was or what I was doing. She believed any lie I told her about ‘staying the night at Sally’s house’ because if I wasn’t at home it meant she could pop a load of Valium and crack on with the vodka.

I had way too much freedom. Lost my virginity at 14 to an 18 year old. Then I was very promiscuous with boys my own age after that. If you’d asked me at the time I would have told you that I just loved sex and I thought I was being all cool and liberal. But in reality I was sleeping with all these boys as a trauma response to being sexualised too early and also because it was my only way of getting affection and attention. I had zero self esteem and started suffering severe panic attacks that I only managed to kick for good in my twenties.

I was also groomed for about a year when I was 16 by my 45 year old boss at my Saturday job. Thank god he never actually touched me, but there was a lot of mind games, giving me presents, inviting me to his house to smoke drugs. I can’t believe that I didn’t end up getting raped by him. Sometimes I wonder whether maybe he did rape me and I’ve just suppressed the memory. I’m 99.9% sure he didn’t. I think in the end he just lost interest because I was too mouthy and getting too old for his taste. But there was no way I should have ever ended up in that situation. Someone should have been looking out for me.

When we were 15 my friend at school had a 21 year old boyfriend. He had a car and a job and we all thought it was very cool. Her parents were even okay with it! I look back now and see it for what it was.

It’s only in the past couple of years that I’ve been able to get rid of the feeling of shame and start placing the blame back with those who deserve it: the men who preyed on me and manipulated me, and, being brutally honest, my parents who saw all this going on and just turned a blind eye.

for you all.

@SuperSara
The fact of the matter is that most men would have sex with young girls if they could. Like it or not, it's a fact

I genuinely hope it isn't.
Do you have any data to corroborate?

Eh no I don’t believe that at all supersara men are not by nature pedophiles. As a pp said I’d like to read your evidence if this.. Thanks

Paedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children. I would not go as far as SuperSara in her assertion but I do think that a significant proportion of men would like to have sex with girls who are in their early to mid-teens.

I don't have any evidence other than my own experience and that of the other women on this thread, though.

I didn't have sex until 17, but when I did, I slept with older men for my first couple of experiences, I was never interested in boys. While I think they were being predatory, I completely understand why I did it- it wasn't just about sex, I couldn't talk to boys my own age, they seemed so immature, and bullied me with lots of name calling at school.

SuperSara I think it's more men than would publicly admit, but it's not all or even most.