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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Very difficult situation DP v DBro. AIBU for DBro to charge DP rent?

321 replies

Jetsetterf · 08/07/2019 21:09

I'm buying a flat in joint names with DBro. DBro is putting money into the flat as an investment but the flat is being bought for me to live in.

The flat is in a different city to where DP currently lives. I've previously said to DP if he moves in I wouldn't charge him rent. DP has applied for a job in the city where the flat is.

I wouldn't charge DP rent on my share but would DBro be unreasonable to charge DP a reduced rate of rent on his share?

DP is now angry at me because I didn't tell him he may have to pay rent on DBro's share and he said he wouldn't have applied for the job in the city the flat is in if he had known. I said I wouldn't charge him rent, but I have no control over DBro's share and surely he is being unreasonable to expect DBro to let him live there rent free?

OP posts:
myrtleWilson · 09/07/2019 01:00

Ah I remember you now OP -weren't you looking at doing a Help to Buy with your DB?

BananasAreTheSourceOfEvil · 09/07/2019 01:17

OP you know yourself that you need to get this set out legally between the two of you.

Midnight conversations and the best of goodwill isnt good enough to fix what may come about down the road- who is responsible for what etc- you are a solicitor, you know this.

Never mix family/friends and money without something set out in writing.

Im not UK but if you/db are charging anything that can be dressed as rent, do you not become a de facto landlord after time? Im not UK but @Ellisandra made some really good points.

PooWillyBumBum · 09/07/2019 06:15

If DB owned whole property he would get £700 rent and pay the mortgage.

You’re covering mortgage so by giving him the £350 in cash you’re paying £640 rent and presumably also covering half (or all!?) maintenance and upkeep, plus he has no agents fees to pay.

How can you not see he’s going to get all of the perks of being a landlord with none of the financial responsibility of being an owner.

And your partner doesn’t want to help you either? The men in your life are CFs.

PooWillyBumBum · 09/07/2019 06:19

Just caught up on last page. Mortgage only sounds more fair however he’s still doing amazingly well out of a 5k investment Hmm

I would tell ‘D’P to forget the job in your city and enjoy your flat by yourself for a while. It’ll cost you more to have him there with bills and it sounds like he’s only interested in living with you if it’s a free ride.

Shoxfordian · 09/07/2019 06:32

Your boyfriend sounds selfish. He wants to live rent free with you because he can save up and buy his own place and because he might get a job there. He doesn't seem to be thinking of buying a place with you or that you're a team.

You definitely need some proper legal advice about the flat, there must be a nice colleague at work who can advise you?

adaline · 09/07/2019 06:51

Personally I would scrap the whole ridiculous idea Hmm

Why on earth would you buy a property with your brother when you want to move in with and marry your partner?

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/07/2019 07:00

Your brother is going to be massively advantaged. You’re going to be paying the full mortgage and your parents back yet your brother will 1) living at home, not be paying bills etc and 2) be getting £200 a month for a £5k investment. WOW THAT IS BAD.

He can then offset the loans from your parents to the tune of £200 pcm. £200 pcm is an insane return for a £5k investment. Where do I sign up??!!

Your “dp” wants to live rent free. Imo your “dp” should pay your parents the £200 directly and that go jointly toward paying off the loan - so £100 for you, £100 for your brother. If your partner is serious about getting married, he should be happy to do this as it is an investment in his future for eventually the two of you may decide to buy your brother out. Or buy together.

I agree with the consensus. You are being screwed over by your brother courtesy of your family, who are infantilising you by refusing to loan you the full amount. That is unless they can’t afford to loan the same again to your bother when he wishes to buy.

Can you not buy a studio flat and get half the loan and your brother do the same? That would be much much cleaner. Doesn’t matter that he can’t rent it out. He could afford keep it for 2 years after all he’s living rent free at home now so could either move in or have it as a weekend pad.

Cheeserton · 09/07/2019 07:03

He's applied for a job, not taken it and moved in. Tell him not to take it if paying half rent is too much, when for most that would be a dream...

Atalune · 09/07/2019 07:03

I think you’ve been given some poor financial advice on this thread too. Your brother is going to be so much better off than you.

His investment of £5k is marginally bigger than yours except he will benefit massively. It’s really unfair. You must not do this.

Cheeserton · 09/07/2019 07:07

Mummy

It's OP's choice not to take rent from DP, and she benefits from living in the flat when her brother doesn't! Nobody is screwing her over.

BoneyBackJefferson · 09/07/2019 07:15

Cheeserton

Nobody is screwing her over.

I agree with regards to her deal with her DP but the DB is definitely screwing her over.

Cheeserton · 09/07/2019 07:23

Which she's also willingly allowing. That's her problem.

Burpsandrustles · 09/07/2019 07:26

I agree with Mrs fezzwigg.

Sound like partner just saw this as opportunity to keep saving but also be with you. Perhaps if he had never moved out he is oblivious of bills etc.

He was looking forward to being with you and saving I hope for both of you? For somewhere to live....

Now he's thwarted.. He feels you or dobro want to make money out of him so why move?

I can sort of see his point!

Burpsandrustles · 09/07/2019 07:27

It's not his dream. His dream is to buy his own place. Which is he is on way to doing by living at home.

RhiWrites · 09/07/2019 08:00

Living at home and sponging off his parents because he’s not paying rent there either.

I think OP and her BF are both unreasonable. Her for weasling out of what she initially said. Him for thinking he should live rent free.

Hont1986 · 09/07/2019 08:10

I hope you always have a good relationship with your brother, OP, because if you ever have a falling out and there's a dispute over this house, it's going to be an absolute nightmare to sort out.

Hont1986 · 09/07/2019 08:19

I don't think BF has been unreasonable. He's living at home and saving for a deposit, that's a very common thing to do. Don't know why everyone is declaring him a manchild or cocklodger for having to do that, I think pretty much everyone below 30 will have to unless they're a high earner or can get help from family.

And isn't it a pretty common maxim on these boards that you shouldn't move into a property you aren't named on? Or pay towards a mortgage you aren't named on?

If OP came here and said her boyfriend had asked her to move in with him rent-free, she'd applied for a job in his town, then he revealed that "oh actually you'll have to pay my brother rent", do you think she be called a cocklodger (or w/e equivalent) for balking at that?

NinjaInFluffyPJs · 09/07/2019 08:26

But. If the partner pays towards the mortgage, unless proper rental contract is drawn, he can actually claim a share in a house.
Also agree with some pp. He is not a cocklodger. OP offered it being rent free. Who wouldn't take it. Just share bills then. I get why boyfriend is not happy.
"Wanna live with me for free?"
"Sure."
Starts working on the move
"btw, it's not really free. My bro will be charging you"
🤷

SD1978 · 09/07/2019 08:28

So he's charging you rent- and your covering all the mortgage, and he gets a 50/50 split from the sale of the property in the future. And your partner thinks he should pay nothing because it's not his house.........both these men are arseholes.

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 09/07/2019 08:32

Yabu. He obviously would have taken the ‘I won’t charge you rent” to mean he would not have to pay rent. If you are paying all the mortgage it seems unreasonable for your brother to be charging rent as well.

Hahaha88 · 09/07/2019 08:33

I think we all need to stop trying to give OP advice. She's clearly not listening. Let her crack on and when she realises what a stupid mistake she's made and all the mess she's in maybe she'll remember everyone advising her against this insanity and think hey I should have actually listened and dought legal advise rather than having midnight convos with my brother to "fix" things

SummerInTheVillage · 09/07/2019 08:55

He really doesn't sound like a keeper, OP.

Nonnymum · 09/07/2019 09:01

I think your partner is being unreasonable. I'd he is not happy about paying rent then he can turn down the job if he is offered it. Is it very low pay?. Why does he feel he shouldn't pay any rent at all? If he moved out from his parents( which surely he will have to do at some stage) he would have to pay rent and probably more than £200

TremblingFanjo · 09/07/2019 09:04

Forget your idiot of a DP - who even thinks they can live rent free? - and lets get back to your miser of a brother.

It would be cheaper for you to borrow & replay the 5K he is putting down as a deposit, than it will be for you to pay all the mortgage and the rent. He's totally shafting you.

Nonnymum · 09/07/2019 09:11

Ah just seen the update. If you are paying the full mortgage while you live there then no, I don't think. DP should be paying rent to your DB he should be paying rent to you