Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Very difficult situation DP v DBro. AIBU for DBro to charge DP rent?

321 replies

Jetsetterf · 08/07/2019 21:09

I'm buying a flat in joint names with DBro. DBro is putting money into the flat as an investment but the flat is being bought for me to live in.

The flat is in a different city to where DP currently lives. I've previously said to DP if he moves in I wouldn't charge him rent. DP has applied for a job in the city where the flat is.

I wouldn't charge DP rent on my share but would DBro be unreasonable to charge DP a reduced rate of rent on his share?

DP is now angry at me because I didn't tell him he may have to pay rent on DBro's share and he said he wouldn't have applied for the job in the city the flat is in if he had known. I said I wouldn't charge him rent, but I have no control over DBro's share and surely he is being unreasonable to expect DBro to let him live there rent free?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 08/07/2019 22:43

I don't think DP is trying to take advantage financially but he can't see why he should go from living rent free with his parents to moving to a new city to pay rent to DBro That is all anyone needs to know about him.

And you have made a bit of a fuck up with your DB too. He is getting to have his cake and eat it!

You pay half the mortgage each and then you pay him half the going rent, surely? At no point can I see that it is right that you pay all of the mortage plus half of the full rent! You need to work that one out again and discuss it with your DB.

But your DP needs to be told to wind his neck in and to realise that neither you nor your brother owe him a home! Now he knows what the reality is he can think it through like an adult and act accordingly. Starting with an apology to you.

Redshoeblueshoe · 08/07/2019 22:43

Why on earth did you get into such a stupid arrangement ?

Gwenhwyfar · 08/07/2019 22:44

"Yeah paying someone else's mortgage is what every other person has to do when they don't own a house,"

Not really everyone. All my landlords have owned outright. What I pay them is profit minus maintenance costs.

TileLane · 08/07/2019 22:44

Hi Jet

Please would you clarify:

21k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying this?

30k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying?

83k mortgage - who’s name is this in and who will be paying?

Wakeupalready · 08/07/2019 22:44

I suck at maths, but even I can tell you that both your DB and your DP are trying to rip you off. Do not enter into either arrangement with things as they currently stand. BOTH of them are fucking you around.

Go see an accountant or a contract specialist re the "deal" with your brother, and leave your DP to moulder with his parents if he isn't prepared to cough up.
Your DP should be giving his parents money anyway , the tightwad. I bet he's never paid a property related bill in his life - you are asking for piles of arguments about who used more water/gas/electricity/council tax and all the rest.

Nope on both fronts.

Waterfallgirl · 08/07/2019 22:44

They are both trying to mug you OP. Sorry.
My advice would be:

  1. Get rid of DP ( who expects to live rent free anywhere once they are a grown up?) as someone said above ‘cocklodger in Waiting’ once you are married “by 26” he’ll have a right to half of your house.....which you have paid for do you realise that?
  2. Get some financial and legal advice before buying with your brother
  3. Buy on your own and rent a room to AN other who will pay you going rate.
And definitely 1. first.
KTara · 08/07/2019 22:45

If you own half the flat and the rental value of DB’s half is £350, you pay half the mortgage plus £350 for the time you live in it alone. DB pays half the mortgage. So you pay £480.

But this still misses the point that it is not a BTL mortgage and your DB is a co-owner not landlord. You could take the view that it is his choice not to live in his half of the flat and your cost is simply half the mortgage ...

But no way should you be paying the full mortgage and rent.

Plus you owe him 1k and you both pay half the loans.

Waterfallgirl · 08/07/2019 22:45

Crossed with @Wakeupalready who said it better than me.

BumbleBeee69 · 08/07/2019 22:48

OP did you say you were a Solicitor ? your Brother and your partner are screwing you over, please seek alternative legal advice. Flowers

AlexaAmbidextra · 08/07/2019 22:49

but he can't see why he should go from living rent free with his parents to moving to a new city to pay rent to DBro

Well he doesn’t have to pay rent does he? Just let this child stay with Mummy and Daddy. He’ll be doing you a favour. You need to think twice about marrying him though unless you want to be supporting him.

CorBlimeyGovenor · 08/07/2019 22:50

He doesn't want to pay rent anywhere as he does n't want to pay off someone else's mortgage??!! Oh dear, well he's got a lot of growing up to do! If he thinks that renting is a waste of money, then presumably he is living at home and busily saving up for a deposit on his own house?? And if his parents want to fund him, that's their choice! But if he doesn't want to cough up reduced rent, he's unlikely to want to pay for any other bills.

katewhinesalot · 08/07/2019 22:50

I can understand him being disappointed but he shouldn't be angry. He just had to put job plans on hold.

I also think your db is getting a damn good deal for a 5k investment. I'd like to put in 5k and get the same deal please.

FancyACarrot · 08/07/2019 22:50

NRTHT

Your DBRO is BU charging you rent after 2yrs when you are paying the WHOLE mortgage before and after! WTF! (unless he has put in a much bigger chuck at beginning).

And you were daft to let you DP live with you rent free. They are both taking the piss out of you it seems...

HairyDogsInUnusualPlaces · 08/07/2019 22:50

So for the first 2? years you pay the full mortgage and db makes no money from possible rental, then after 2? years you pay full mortgage and £350 to cover his possible rental income.
Surely, you would only pay half the mortgage when you're giving db rent of £350? Out of which he'd have to pay his half of the mortgage.
Admittedly he is out of pocket for the 2 years he could have been getting £220 pcm (£350 rent, less £130 his half of the mortgage).
However, if he bought it as a BTL, there would be all sorts of extras that would cost him more.

Original poster
Jetsetterf · 08/07/2019 22:52

@TileLane

21k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying this? no-one, loan to parents so a soft loan. me and DBro will be paying this off equally.

30k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying? legally responsible - both of us. me and DBro will be paying this off equally.

83k mortgage - who’s name is this in and who will be paying? In my name. I'll be paying while I'm living there

OP posts:
KTara · 08/07/2019 22:52

I agree you are being screwed over. I would walk away. It is a huge amount of debt apart from anything else. Can you not find something to rent and save the money you would be paying on debt interest towards a deposit for a house once you earn more?

BearsDontDigOnDancing · 08/07/2019 22:53

There is no way your DB should be paying nothing toward the mortgage yet still be expecting half a market rent - for his half - which he is not paying towards...!!!

If he is expecting rent for his 50% then he needs to be paying for his 50%

You are just paying twice. Or in fact more than twice since 50% rent is more than 100% mortgage.

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 08/07/2019 22:53

Unless your current living situation is unbearable, I think you should stay where you are and save until you are in a position to either rent somewhere better for yourself, or to buy. The situation you describe could (and probably will) go wrong in so many ways that it isn't really worth trying IMO. At the very least you need proper advice from someone with a lot of experience in this area.
About the loans from family, won't your mortgage company be concerned about that? I didn't think they accepted borrowed money for the deposit?

MitziK · 08/07/2019 22:53

If he doesn't see why he should pay his own way, he's not a keeper - it wouldn't surprise me if he'd be far less interested in you as a whole if there wasn't the prospect of free accommodation attached.

Let him stay where he is until he gets himself a new Mummy who will look after him - it's obviously what he's looking for and will most likely still be there in his forties.

Atalune · 08/07/2019 22:55

jet do you see what everyone is saying? Confused

lottiegarbanzo · 08/07/2019 22:56

I shall pay the £260 mortgage in its entirety for the amount of time I live in the property and £350 as the share of the rent DBro would earn.

NO it's OR not AND.

If you were letting it out, you and DBro would gain £350 each (before costs and tax) and you would each pay your half of the mortgage and loans out of that.

So, you could pay DBro £350 rent (taxable after costs), out of which he pays his half of the mortgage.

OR, you pay the whole mortgage.

I thought the idea was that, as paying the mortgage is less than market rent (and presumably the family loans don't have to be repaid until the flat is sold), your bro was kindly letting you have two years of just paying the mortgage. Then you were going to pay him the difference between half mortgage and half rent, so £90 a month.

You don't pay his half the mortgage AND pay him half the market rent! What tenant would do that?

You will be splitting maintenance costs down the middle, won't you? Given you are co-owners. You could end up badly disadvantaged if you started paying for things like a new boiler alone - as the person living there.

BearsDontDigOnDancing · 08/07/2019 22:58

30k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying? legally responsible - both of us. me and DBro will be paying this off equally.

Apart from the fact that if he stops paying his share (which given he is not even paying for his share of the house I would not think is that unlikely) then YOU are fully responsible for the entire amount.

Your DP is the least of your worries. This is an absolute clusterfuck of a situation.

lottiegarbanzo · 08/07/2019 22:59

Oh I got the difference wrong there, £220 not £90.

HeadsDownThumbsUpEveryone · 08/07/2019 23:01

30k loan - who is legally responsible for paying this and who will be paying? legally responsible - both of us. me and DBro will be paying this off equally.

Unless he decides one day he doesn't want to and then legally you are fully responsible for paying all of it!

Given he doesn't even pay for anything to do with the property this is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

LifeofClimb · 08/07/2019 23:07

Oh boy.

OP you've totally got this the wrong way round.

The only reason your brother would collect rent is if he owned a property (usually on a BLT mortgage if it's not a cash purchase) and paid the mortgage, then charged for bills and rent. He would be responsible for maintenance and insurance.

Since you're buying together you are BOTH responsible for maintenance, insurance, and mortgage. Since only one of you is living there it makes sense that you would pay bills. Everything else should be split. If he wants to charge you "rent" for his half, then he needs to take responsibility for his share of the maintenance, insurance and mortgage. He shouldn't assume no responsibility for any payments AND make profit.

And as for your boyfriend - I think it's pretty unanimous that he needs to change his attitude and pay his way or stay with his parents if that's his plan.