To be pissed off by my friend's career snobbery?

[Oddychaj]

DD is starting Year 13. She wants to do her degree in pediatric nursing, but is aware the course is competitive and plans to do adult nursing then get the further qualifications for neonatal on top of that if she can't do pediatric. Her preferred uni is Central Lancashire. We expect her to get all of the grades required etc. Was having coffee yesterday with a friend and was a little shocked by what she said. We were talking about our DC and I said:

"DD is looking to go into pediatric nursing or potentially neonatal. We've looked at a few unis and are very optimistic."

She responded:

"Why hasn't she looked at being a doctor? She seems clever enough and I'd say it's much more rewarding."

I was quite thrown. DD is clever and I expect her to get the grades for nursing with flying colours, but she's unlikely to get A's and A* across the board. Probably a mix of A's and B's. Which I see absolutely no problem with. She also stated to me she's not interested in doctor as it's a much longer course and has more elements to it that she's not interested in. I told my friend this and she responded "If my DS (15) decides to go into the medical field I will be pushing him towards doctor." I changed the subject.

AIBU to be quite insulted? We are from a working class background and DD will be one of 2 family members on my side to have gone to uni. So it's very exciting for us. I don't like hearing her chosen career will be inferior.

Maybe a good reply would have been, “I can imagine it’s rewarding for people for whom it’s their first choice. But for DD it wouldn’t be her first choice, so it wouldn’t be as rewarding as paediatric nursing”.

As described to me nursing is basically about caring being a doctor about curing - (sweeping generalization I know especially in theses days of nursing practitioners) but the point is that its a different type of vocation - & equally important - its a bit old fashioned to consider a degree qualified nurse as an inferior career. Where would we be without nurses???

One of mine did nursing, school were horrified and said they should be a doctor not a nurse. I said, "Don't worry when they are running the hospital they will have alot of influence." And so it came to pass.

Nursing is brilliant career if that is what they want, mine has no regrets.

It's not really snobbery to suggest that a doctor is a better paid career than a nurse

Depends on career path, my son is a nurse and now in a senior managerial position, friends from school who did medicine are earning less than him and have a much worse work life balance.

OP, I totally get your frustration. So many people hold medicine in a much higher regard than nursing, but they really are two different jobs. I am almost at the end of my second year of Mental Health nursing and have been asked so many times why I'm not doing medicine, or didn't I think about being a doctor. I'm in my 20s now, so didn't go into it straight from school and I did get As and A*s in my A levels. But the fact is, I don't want to be a doctor. It's a different role, career progression is so much slower and specialising takes longer. It's also much more focused on the medical side (obviously) and what I enjoy is the patient contact and the more psychological side. Nursing really can be very flexible. To give you some examples, I have worked with nurse prescribers, nurses who are qualified to do autism assessments, nurses who have trained in CBT and nurses who have done a Masters in psychotherapy. There is so much scope. If your DD wants to be a nurse, your friend should respect that.

Your daughter sounds wonderful.

As a teacher I will mention being a doctor to children who say they want to be a nurse but that's when they are primary age and have the mindset that men=doctors and women=nurses which I want to address. I wouldn't dream of saying anything to a young woman like your daughter.

It sounds like such a great career and so great she is already so focused before her degree starts on her specialism.

There is a huge difference between the fees for medical school and a nursing degree, I would’ve thought that, along with the excellent grades etc required would make it obvious it’s not for everyone.

However, I do understand the question as wannabe female medics can get pigeon holed without considering all options

As a nurse I've come to realise that this is the sort of thing that uneducated people say. Just say because it's a different career that's why! I earn far more as a nurse than any of the female medics I knew earlier in my career. Why because nursing presents far more career options and when they wanted children they struggled.

Plus can I interject that the myth of under-paid nurses is now just that. They start at mid twenties annually and at band 7 can go up to just under £44k annually that does not include enhanced pay for unsocial hours nursing pay is good. Now if you want to look at doctors pay that's another matter. A registrar can only hope to get starting pay of about £37k annually and they are specialist in their field. It's only when you progress to consultant level the money starts coming in

Yes, but... How many nurses are Band 7 and what age are they?

Most nurses aren't Band 7 and it's the pinnacle of the career for most if they do get there. While a registrar is young and on a waypoint to being a consultant where the starting salary is £77000 with rapid annual increments. A junior doctor could expect to be a consultant earning that in their early 30s.

So the comparison isn't completely fair.

Don’t be insulted.
You’ll have lovely relationships with your kids who you see as human beings on their own right.
Hers will be avoiding her( or at least regard her as tricky) as she sees them as status symbols / extensions of her.

That or she feels better for putting people down and is not much of a friend.

whether he was disappointed after spending so much money on my education that I was "only" a teacher

My daughter’s head teacher recently met her haemotolgy/oncology consultant at a charity event. Headteacher went up to shake consultant’s hand and thank him for saving my DD’s life...

Consultant pointed out that without teachers we can’t make doctors and thanked her right back.

Family member is a nurse and said that given her time again, she would have gone for being a doctor.

On the other hand, I know a good few people who did their degree because their parents wanted them to/because they thought they should/did the course they got the grades for not the one they wanted and are now unhappy in their career, or retrained after their first degree.

I dont think your friend was rude, I think that she was complimentary.

This sounds a bit like the way some (not many fortunately) people reacted to my youngest stepson.
Eldest is extremely bright. He got a first in astrophysics, now doing a degree in quantum physics "for something to do" (!), and is currently employed in a research post, and loving it.
Youngest is bright, but not interested in academia. He's like his dad, very focused on music, and has taken the same route as his dad, music technology and production. He's also loving what he does, and making a decent living at it for a 20 year old.
'Some people' seemed to think that was a waste of time, and 'why wasn't he doing something like the eldest'?
Because he'd have been totally miserable and disinterested. They're half brothers, and both very much like their dads, interested in, and good at, two totally different spheres.
Your 'friend' needs to wind her neck in. lt's bugger all to do with her what your daughter chooses to do. The main thing is that it's her choice, and it's a very respectable and worthwhile career. Good for her!

My impression of nursing is that it’s a very undervalued career. Nurses work very hard but are woefully underpaid for the amount of work and stress it involves.

Not everywhere. In New York with good references and a few years experience she could easily make US $75k per year. There's a chronic shortage of nurses here as the scope of practice grows and health care employers compete sharply for nursing staff. Last fall one local hospital was advertising for nurses on the radio and offering signing bonuses.

It's seen as a high status career here. It's also easy to get flexible hours and work part time.

I think nurses being undervalued is quite an old fashioned thing, it’s always been fairly high status but traditionally female which of course is why it was looked down upon.

Some people just don't understand that just because a job might not earn you lots of money, it is still important

While that is the case, it’s a sad fact that many women choose not to enter higher paid careers when I bet they’re capable.

Agree with Hazza000 I cant believe the amount of people who seem to think Nursing hasn’t moved on at all. A band 5 Nurse does more than people would think, but there is a lot of room for progression with roles like Advanced Nurse Practitioner.

Unless my Child was absolutely dead set on being a Dr from a young age and had the grades I wouldn’t push him. The hours for a Junior Dr and the stress of the role aren’t worth it unless it’s the only thing you want to do. To push somebody who hasn’t really thought about it or who wants to be a Nurse would be a mistake I think.

Nursing and medicine are completely different. If your dd wants to be nurse because she knows whay the j9b involves and has the skills required and wants to make a difference to the patients then she should be encouraged, it's a valid career and a vocation for most.

Medicine isn't just another version for "brighter" students. The skills required are different and the progression, pay and training are different and not without stress for either choice.

I'd say the comment your friend made was dismissive of nursing and stemmed from old fashioned views of both professions and a lack of understanding of what each role involves.

If I were you, so you don't get caught on the hop, I'd have a little speech prepared for people with opinions like this (there will be many I'm sure!) That focuses on your dds reasons and that it's HER choice and nursing isn't lesser than medicine just different.

Anyone whose academically bright is expected to study to become a doctor, it is so tedious. My mother was academically brilliant but wanted to study interior design. Her father convinced her to study medicine but she dropped out after two years, so ended up without any degree whatsoever.

It’s a perfectly valid question.
If somebody with A and A* s said to me they wanted to be a legal secretary I’d probably say “oh not a lawyer?”

There’s no doubt that medicine is considered harder than nursing. It’s a compliment to the young person to say you think they’d do well in medicine.

Of course there’s nothing wrong st all with choosing nursing over medicine but instead of being offended by the question why not just describe why your dd has chosen nursing?

@Oddychaj My partner had a temporary ileostomy and got looked after by nurses specialising in that area. The amount of knowledge those people had was incredible! They also got to spend a lot of time with the patients and provided psychological support. It was obviously a very highly skilled job.

I trained in Preston as a nurse almost 30 years ago (long before UCLAN) and remember the raised eyebrows from the tutors when they realised I had four A'levels, almost as though I should be doing something else. But I've never wanted to be a doctor. Given the choice again I wouldn't be a nurse though FWIW.
I have many student nurses from UCLAN, the level of academic support is questionable at times, sorry.

@missconduct yes it's just this country that doesn't value them and that's because our country is run by an old Etonian boys network basically! Quite depressing!

Whilst it isn't any of her business, it is something I would have asked my kids if they had expressed any interest in health care. Nursing is woefully underpaid in the U.K. with them taking on the bulk of the workload (though I note not ultimate responsibility)