to want an apology from brother and mum?

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I had a falling out with my brother and mum last weekend and we haven’t spoken since then

My brother has a son from a one night stand 9 years ago. My nephew (H) and his mum (J) live 4 hours from us. My brother does not get on with J because he is pretty slack with contact which causes arguments between them. My brother has two other boys with his fiancée and they don’t have a lot of money so it’s hard for my brother to get over to see H, saying that he rarely FaceTimes or phones him which understandably annoys J and isn’t fair to H.

Me and DH went to visit H last month and had a wonderful time. My brother did not ask once how we got on or how H is doing (baring in mind he hasn’t seen him for 6 months or so). We tried to FaceTime my brother when we were with H but he didn’t answer or call us back. H was quite upset about this as he wanted to speak to his Dad.

My mum had a gathering last weekend and this was the first time i had seen my brother since I went to visit H. I tried to bring up the visit a few times but my brother changed the subject. He was also being quite cold towards me and I wasn’t really sure what I had done.

When my brother said he was going to leave soon, I asked if he wanted to FaceTime H and said I could call J’s phone so we could speak to him. My brother completely flew off the handle and started yelling that I shouldn’t be close with J, she’s a liar that makes stuff up to make him look bad and she’s a bad mother. I’ve never had a problem with J and have no reason to dislike her, so I said “I don’t want to get into all that” and he started yelling more until I walked away.

He then went home and began messaging me, telling me I was selfish for talking about H and that I was rubbing it in his and my other nephews faces that I had seen him recently and he was sick of me being self centred, that I had a chip on my shoulder and clearly had a problem with his lack of contact with H and that I think my brother does not love his son. I did not say ANY of this, and felt my brother was projecting his feelings of guilt on to me, whilst trying to tear me apart and insult me. I told him I have no issues with how often he sees H and that I had not said any of the things he was accusing me of. He went on to say I might not have said it, but he knew it was what I was thinking. I said he was acting crazy and I am sick of him flying off the handle and attacking me over his own perceptions and not actual reality. He went on to say we were done and he wanted no part of me in his life. He then blocked me on social media

I was still at my mothers whilst he was sending me these messages and I became very upset and was crying. My mum said she wasn’t going to take sides and refused to acknowledge that my brother was acting wrongly. I told her it wasn’t about picking sides but I felt let down that she refused to acknowledge he was in the wrong and that I hadn’t done anything. I also brought up the horrible things he had done to me growing up and how everyone walked on eggshells around him so as not to set him off, and asked how she couldn’t see that he had not grown out of that behaviour. I then left my mothers house in tears. My mother then phoned my brother and relayed everything I had said to her and offered comfort to my brother who was upset. My brother then messaged me again to say leave our mother alone and to stop bitching about him to her.

My brother has not contacted me since to apologise and my mother is not speaking to me either. I am incredibly upset over all of this and have been crying since Sunday because of it, but I feel they should apologise to me and not the other way round.

So, AIBU?

I can't vote on that. You make him sound unreasonable but I'd imagine he would tell it very differently.

I can see why he would be pissed off about you staying friendly with his ex and seeing his son while he can’t be bothered. It’s paints him in a terrible light. That being said it sounds as though you are being the bigger person and keeping that door open for your nephew which is important for his feelings of self worth.

I’m going to say YANBU.

He doesn’t really bother with his son, can’t be arsed by the sounds of it. Went on to have two more children whilst not making any effort with his first born.
His anger is misdirected. He’s embarrassed because you’ve made more of an effort to keep in touch with and see his son than he has.

I think you were unreasonable to ask him if he wanted to facetime H at the party. He had changed the subject and made it clear he didn't want to discuss H with you so why would you push it in this way? That's not to say he sounds like a good Dad btw.

Your brother is a classic golden child if your mum can't see what is wrong with the way he has behaved.
I think you might need to invite your mum to your house so that your brother isn't involved.
The nephew has done nothing to deserve your brother's behaviour so please do carry on seeing him.
Yanbu.

Yanbu. He sounds like a shitty father and shitty brother. He also sounds like a text book narcissist - your mum placating his narc rages, his anger whenever reminded of his pathetic efforts at parenting (threatens his "good guy" narc self image) - I'd welcome the chance to reduce contact. And your mum needs the dynamic pointing out to her, lest she continue to damage her relationship with you.

I think you are being unreasonable. Increased contact is only going to come from your brother wanting it. You continuously pushing it - and trying to FaceTime him while your nephew is there - is not going to make any difference and will only end up hurting your nephew by raising and then dashing his hopes.

Ultimately, it’s your brother’s decision, not yours. You need to butt out.

YOU'RE MAKING HIM look bad and he isn't going to like that!
Also, his worlds are unexpectedly colliding. Crap he's told you and craps he's told her could all explode in his face. No wonder he's cranky.

It's fine for you to see your nephew, and encourage your DB to do so. But choosing a family party to pick at what you know to be a sensitive subject, and then trying to force him to FaceTime his DS at your command was never likely to cause good feeling or solve anything.

If I was your DM I would not be impressed, and (not that I care about your DB's feelings here) it was completely predictable that you would fall out with your DB over this.

@Lindellia I don’t get involved with his contact with H. I never say anything about it to him because he becomes defensive and angry very quickly and his rages are horrible. So I don’t know how I can butt out when I don’t comment on it in the first place.

YABU to get involved in his relationship with his child. It's lovely that you maintain a relationship with your DN but it's up to him and his ex if and when he sees his child regardless of whether you think he makes enough effort. You kept bringing the subject up and he kept changing the conversation, you should have taken the hint.

I didn’t try to force him. I asked if he wanted to FaceTime H together. That was one question, I didn’t demand he do it or lecture him about lack of contact. I didn’t even mention lack of contact.

He sounds like a shitty father.

However, I don't understand why, when you know that you would continue this conversation at the party. Especially, since when you mention his previous behaviour.

If you want to discuss the issue with your brother, that is not the time or the place. It may have come across to you brother and mother that you were trying to embarrass him into contacting H. Which, isnt actually a bad thing, but will provoke strong reaction.

I feel sorry for you mum. He is a shit and you are putting her in the middle of your arguments. She should have told him all you said, but she probably doesnt want to believe her son could be so shit.

You may want an apology, but it doesnt sound like he is the type to give it.

I think perhaps you are hearing his ex's side of the story and not taking into consideration that there are 2 sides to every story. If I were your brother I would be thinking that you should perhaps keep your nose out of his business and I'm not surprised he got angry with you.
There is a time and place to discuss this kind of thing and a family party isn't it.
That said, it could also be that he is a terrible father and doesn't like having you know this, but, ultimately, you were unreasonable to bring it up at the party.

I think you shouldn’t have tried to make him FaceTime or whatever. He’s an adult, it’s up to him, not you, even if you think he’s crap at contact. Leave him alone. Have a relationship with your nephew, but you can’t make him a better father. I think yabu.

I asked if he wanted to FaceTime H together

Why though? Even if he did want to facetime him why would he want to share the call with you, or do it with an audience especially when things are already quite difficult? And he'd already made it clear he didn't want to discuss the subject so not sure what you thought it would achieve.

Well your brother was right really, you were thinking all those things he said. He is obviously not a great parent but I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve by repeatedly bringing up his DS when he made it clear to you he didn't want to discuss it. He's a shit but you inflamed the situation. You might've been right but that doesn't mean you did the right thing on the day.

That said, you're doing a good thing by staying in contact with your nephew and his mum, you've just handled the situation with your mum and brother badly. They don't sound like great people but you've made a bad situation worse.

If his issue is not having enough money to visit, could you in future some time, offer to help with the cost of that?
However I think he sounds like a spoilt child in the way he’d behaving - as others have said, it sounds like his behaviour has been allowed by your mum.
Difficult situation. I hope for you it improves.

So I don’t know how I can butt out when I don’t comment on it in the first place.

Have you read your own OP?!? You talk about trying to FaceTime your brother while with H, then about bringing up the visit while at a party with your brother and asking your brother to FaceTime H there and then.

When I say ‘butt out’ I mean stop doing any of that. By all means keep up your contact with H, but don’t involve your brother in any way.

Sorry I just want to clarify a couple of things.

J is not my brother’s ex. Her and my brother slept together when they had known each other one day, she fell pregnant and had to track my brother down to tell him which took quite a long time. They were never romantically involved and I am not close with her in that we are BFFs, but she has always been friendly to me, has welcomed and encouraged contact between all of my family and H and I therefore have no reason to slag her off.

I wasn’t trying to provoke my brother, the two things I said about H at the party was telling my mum and brother something funny that he had said, and also that H had shown me a video of him playing the piano in assembly.

I have never, and would never, mention my brothers parenting to H, or his relationship with J. My brother would hate it if I sat down and slagged him off to J which is why I don’t do it, but similarly I don’t believe I should slag J off to him when I have no reason to.

You stuck your nose in, despite being knocked back several times, and got the repercussions of that.

The fact your Mum won't choose sides says that you were in the wrong too.

Maintain your relationship with your nephew and stop trying to force your brother to be the parent he isn't to him. It's just going to cause heartache all round.

The whole FaceTime thing is because I witnessed H crying his eyes out over the lack of contact from his dad when I visited him and I felt awful. Who wants to see an 8 year old child cry? Also my brother sporadically does FaceTime him, but doesn’t seem capable of keeping regular contact with him.

I tried to bring up the visit a few times but my brother changed the subject. He was also being quite cold towards me and I wasn’t really sure what I had done.

That was your queue to stop talking about H at the party. If I has a gathering and a family member kept bringing something up that another didnt want to discuss, even though it was clear they didnt want to talk about it. I would be pissed off too.

Likely you mum thinks you started this when there was no need to do it then.

So did your attempt to facetime him while you were there make him feel better or worse when his Dad didn't answer?

Its very upsetting for your nephew and nothing excuses you brother being shit.

But a party at someo e else's house is not the time or place to do this.

He made it clear he wanted you to stop.

And what if he did facetime him. Nephew will be happy for a bit and then sad because your brother wont bother again.

You nephew would be better with no contact than sporadic. The truth is one short, public facetime isnt really helping anyone. Especially your nephew