to want an apology from brother and mum?

[RedRep]

I had a falling out with my brother and mum last weekend and we haven’t spoken since then

My brother has a son from a one night stand 9 years ago. My nephew (H) and his mum (J) live 4 hours from us. My brother does not get on with J because he is pretty slack with contact which causes arguments between them. My brother has two other boys with his fiancée and they don’t have a lot of money so it’s hard for my brother to get over to see H, saying that he rarely FaceTimes or phones him which understandably annoys J and isn’t fair to H.

Me and DH went to visit H last month and had a wonderful time. My brother did not ask once how we got on or how H is doing (baring in mind he hasn’t seen him for 6 months or so). We tried to FaceTime my brother when we were with H but he didn’t answer or call us back. H was quite upset about this as he wanted to speak to his Dad.

My mum had a gathering last weekend and this was the first time i had seen my brother since I went to visit H. I tried to bring up the visit a few times but my brother changed the subject. He was also being quite cold towards me and I wasn’t really sure what I had done.

When my brother said he was going to leave soon, I asked if he wanted to FaceTime H and said I could call J’s phone so we could speak to him. My brother completely flew off the handle and started yelling that I shouldn’t be close with J, she’s a liar that makes stuff up to make him look bad and she’s a bad mother. I’ve never had a problem with J and have no reason to dislike her, so I said “I don’t want to get into all that” and he started yelling more until I walked away.

He then went home and began messaging me, telling me I was selfish for talking about H and that I was rubbing it in his and my other nephews faces that I had seen him recently and he was sick of me being self centred, that I had a chip on my shoulder and clearly had a problem with his lack of contact with H and that I think my brother does not love his son. I did not say ANY of this, and felt my brother was projecting his feelings of guilt on to me, whilst trying to tear me apart and insult me. I told him I have no issues with how often he sees H and that I had not said any of the things he was accusing me of. He went on to say I might not have said it, but he knew it was what I was thinking. I said he was acting crazy and I am sick of him flying off the handle and attacking me over his own perceptions and not actual reality. He went on to say we were done and he wanted no part of me in his life. He then blocked me on social media

I was still at my mothers whilst he was sending me these messages and I became very upset and was crying. My mum said she wasn’t going to take sides and refused to acknowledge that my brother was acting wrongly. I told her it wasn’t about picking sides but I felt let down that she refused to acknowledge he was in the wrong and that I hadn’t done anything. I also brought up the horrible things he had done to me growing up and how everyone walked on eggshells around him so as not to set him off, and asked how she couldn’t see that he had not grown out of that behaviour. I then left my mothers house in tears. My mother then phoned my brother and relayed everything I had said to her and offered comfort to my brother who was upset. My brother then messaged me again to say leave our mother alone and to stop bitching about him to her.

My brother has not contacted me since to apologise and my mother is not speaking to me either. I am incredibly upset over all of this and have been crying since Sunday because of it, but I feel they should apologise to me and not the other way round.

So, AIBU?

I'm glad things have been straightened out.

Sounds to me as if your DB feels a lot of guilt about the way he's treating his son. Maybe if he knows that you intend to maintain a relationship (whilst keeping quiet about it) he'll eventually feel guilty enough to step up himself. (Hope springs eternal etc etc).

I still wonder how much the fiancee has to do with his lack of relationship with this child. TBF, I think she should be encouraging it. I certainly wouldn't be involved with a man who ignored one of his children. I'd be thinking "If he'll do that to him, he'll do it to mine".

It's so weird how on other posts women are being told how they have to be firm with men who are treating them and their kids like shit but as soon as a family member sticks up for those kids that isn't their mother you are all jumping on her. It's bizarre.
This behaviour will only stop if we ALL stop excusing men being neglectful fathers.

OP, you're doing a great job.

I'm from one of those communities where dads like your brother are the norm. And unfortunately, mothers who enable their son's shitty behaviour is just as rife.

Guaranteed, your brother will be more interested in H when he's older, but by then H would have had life figured out and might not actually want him around. He'd know how to get on without his dad, but he will always remember his aunty who took time out to visit him, watch his piano videos and where he enjoyed sleep overs during the summer. Don't give up on him!

This behaviour will only stop if we ALL stop excusing men being neglectful fathers.

No one has excused him.

This wasnt the time or place. At someone else's house where someone else had organised a gathering.

And then you have to take what's best for the child into account. A dad that's sporadically in touch isnt best for the child, so op trying to push her brother may infact hurt the child more.

Whatever the situation the brother is a dick for not bothering with his own child and I think most (if not all posters) have said that.

My brother’s fiancée is actually wonderful. She sends birthday presents and cards to H from the whole family. She has told me before that my brother has no input into these things and if she didn’t do it, nothing would get sent. On H’s birthday she recorded a video of my other nephews saying happy birthday to him and sent it to J’s phone so she could show H. But my brother didn’t call or FaceTime him to say happy birthday himself, which H was sad about. I think my brother’s fiancée does all she can to encourage my brother to have contact but as I said, my brother has a temper and I guess he’s lashed out at her before.
I also agree and am surprised about the amount of people saying I should just let my brother be neglectful of his child. I find this an odd attitude for mothers to have.

You are ALL unreasonable.

Him for being a shit deadbeat dad!

Your mum for not addressing this with him.

You for trying to dig him up about it in front of other people at a party!

Time and a place for these things.

You address it with him privately and not dragging other uninvolved people into it. Not fair on other guests either.

I'd also say you don't raise it in front of the nephew he rarely sees either - that's just rubbing nephews nose in it too - he and his mum know brother is a shit deadbeat they don't need you pointing it out or trying to play "the big fixer" when with them. See them when you wish that's up to you, brother has no say in that, but don't inflame an already difficult situation.

All this "but I didn't say/do anything wrong, I didn't say I was criticising his lack of contact" is bullshit and you know it. Your actions and what you DID say at the least indirectly implied it - you were bugging him about his lack of contact with his child which was never going to end well.

"I wasn’t trying to provoke my brother, the two things I said about H at the party was telling my mum and brother something funny that he had said, and also that H had shown me a video of him playing the piano in assembly." Yes you were! You didn't have to raise H at all at the party!

Have the weeks holiday with H but be realistic about likely involvement from your brother and her mum

Also everyones assuming H is your brothers eldest and the ons occurred prior to and separate from his current relationship - is that the case? Or did he cheat? If so perhaps that is adding to his guilt?

"All you can do is reassure your nephew that his dad does love him but some people are just not good at showing it." DO NOT do this. It is not op's place to speak for her brother and actually there's no indication it's necessarily true that the brother loves H. I used to say similar to dd and I now know she did not find it helpful at all, just confusing and upsetting and I regret it.

I'm glad apologies have been exchanged but I doubt the issue won't cause problems in the future.

All that is true @graphista, I mean, good assessment and good advice.

I agree with Graphista.
In future keep your trap shut and stop getting the little boy's hopes up.
YABVVVU and so is your brother.

It's not as though no-one's addressing this. Your brother's fiancee seems to have a handle on it, and is doing what she can. So leave her to it and butt out. You're just causing problems, and the more you push, the more your brother will dig his heels in.

it’s not bullshit @Graphista I shouldn’t have to act like my dear nephew doesn’t exist because I’m scared my brother will fly off the handle. He seems to recognise he was wrong and that I didn’t do anything out of place. Anyway this thread is done, thanks

I also agree and am surprised about the amount of people saying I should just let my brother be neglectful of his child. I find this an odd attitude for mothers to have.

Because we all know it's not up to you to let you brother do anything.

No matter how many times you raise it or speak to him, you can not guarantee he will contact his son on a regular basis.

And that's not good for the child. The child would be better with no contact than sporadic.

We also know a party at someone else house is not the time to do it.

You can have a relationship with him, that doesnt include your brother.

@Redrep

I agree with Graphista

In my own words

He is a shit.

You should keep your nose out and not evangelise about visits.

It was wrong to bring your DM in to it.

But none of this should impact on your relationship with H and his DM.

It is bullshit because you did in fact try to publicly shame him for being a shitty deadbeat dad.

I understand the temptation BELIEVE me, dds dad is a waste of Fucking oxygen but as you clearly now realise it doesn't bloody work! If anything it makes things harder for H and J. Who are the very people you claim to be trying to support.

It's really virtue signalling of the worst kind.

My exs parents and even his 2nd wife (who was OW) have on many occasions tried to get him to step up to no avail.

We also see it on these boards a lot, you can't make a deadbeat not be a deadbeat, it simply doesn't work.

With the benefit of my own experience, hindsight and dds views now she's older I wish I'd let ex disappear out of dds life when she was still young enough to forget him. It would have been much better for her than having him for a while, then erratic contact, then conditional contact, then rapidly disappearing contact as she got older.

These days she's lucky if she gets a late birthday card!

These men do not change.

@RedRep

Your DB's fiancee sounds like a lovely, generous woman. Much too good for him!

Sounds like an impossible situation. You obviously do think he is being a shit father and he obviously resents that. To be honest I think you would have been better to come out and say it to his face than to try denying it. Sad though it is though it's his child not yours and you can't make him be a decent person.

@Graphista wrong. It was only myself, my DH and my brother in the part of my mums house when I mentioned H. No attempt to “publicly” humiliate him. Also as previously mentioned prior to the visit my brother asked me to FaceTime him on the Sunday so he could see H and hear about the weekend. He then didn’t answer, didn’t call me back and didn’t message me later in the week to ask how it went.

Anyway my brother has apologised to me and said I shouldn’t have to not talk about H and he’s sorry for flying off the handle. So I think he realises he’s been a shit and projected his guilty feelings on to me.

I don’t know if he will try and have more contact with H now, but I’m just going to carry on being in touch with H and looking forward to his weeks holiday with us at the end of the month. I hope and think my brother will make an effort to spend as much time with him as possible and it will be nice for my other nephews to see him too

While it's very sad for your nephew, your brother being a useless Dad isnt your circus & emotionally abusive people like him rarely change their behaviour on anyone's advice or intervention: they just get abusive to you too . Stay out of it & carry on being a lovely Aunt. Your nephew is lucky you care.

I don't think you should have to hide the fact that you are maintaining a relationship with your nephew so you don't upset his deadbeat father at all OP.

People like this need to be called out on their shit behaviour. He didn't even call back when he missed a call from you that he agreed to take, so the son he hasn't seen for 6 months could have some contact with him? He's a fucking disgrace and I would tell him that at every opportunity I got if I was you. I wouldn't care if my relationship with him ended over it either, brother or not.

Your mother should have called him out on it too, long ago. I would be disgusted if he was my son.

Your nephew is the one suffering the most in this. Good on you for showing you care at least .

Im surprised the fiance has stuck around-he actually avoids talking to his own son doesnt send him presents and gets angry when you mention him

Why would you want to be with a man like that-what if he starts ignoring the other kids one day

You brother is a shit dad. He feels guilty and that is whynhe acted the way he did. He may feel he not be able to see H as often as he wants/should but he could facetime and acknowledge the difficulties.

Not sure you should/can expect your mum to pick sides.

Your brother is a dick who is failing to be any sort of parent to his son. I think you are fine to bring this up, but he obviously is going to get defensive about it. I would have to, though, as your dnephew deserves not to be swept under the carpet.

It's impossible to tell who was being unreasonable from this description.

The only thing is say is ,even if he is a useless father, YWBU to try and facetime him whilst visiting his son if you know there were issues there. Doing that basically set the son up for disappointment.

If you want to be the good person do so by being a good aunt. But I wouldn't interfere with the dynamic with your brother as that might not be good for the son.

And what about your relationship with your Mother now? Saying she won't take sides whilst clearly taking the side of your brothr?

Sorry, just saw your latest update.

That sounds like a good resolution to me.