to want an apology from brother and mum?

[RedRep]

I had a falling out with my brother and mum last weekend and we haven’t spoken since then

My brother has a son from a one night stand 9 years ago. My nephew (H) and his mum (J) live 4 hours from us. My brother does not get on with J because he is pretty slack with contact which causes arguments between them. My brother has two other boys with his fiancée and they don’t have a lot of money so it’s hard for my brother to get over to see H, saying that he rarely FaceTimes or phones him which understandably annoys J and isn’t fair to H.

Me and DH went to visit H last month and had a wonderful time. My brother did not ask once how we got on or how H is doing (baring in mind he hasn’t seen him for 6 months or so). We tried to FaceTime my brother when we were with H but he didn’t answer or call us back. H was quite upset about this as he wanted to speak to his Dad.

My mum had a gathering last weekend and this was the first time i had seen my brother since I went to visit H. I tried to bring up the visit a few times but my brother changed the subject. He was also being quite cold towards me and I wasn’t really sure what I had done.

When my brother said he was going to leave soon, I asked if he wanted to FaceTime H and said I could call J’s phone so we could speak to him. My brother completely flew off the handle and started yelling that I shouldn’t be close with J, she’s a liar that makes stuff up to make him look bad and she’s a bad mother. I’ve never had a problem with J and have no reason to dislike her, so I said “I don’t want to get into all that” and he started yelling more until I walked away.

He then went home and began messaging me, telling me I was selfish for talking about H and that I was rubbing it in his and my other nephews faces that I had seen him recently and he was sick of me being self centred, that I had a chip on my shoulder and clearly had a problem with his lack of contact with H and that I think my brother does not love his son. I did not say ANY of this, and felt my brother was projecting his feelings of guilt on to me, whilst trying to tear me apart and insult me. I told him I have no issues with how often he sees H and that I had not said any of the things he was accusing me of. He went on to say I might not have said it, but he knew it was what I was thinking. I said he was acting crazy and I am sick of him flying off the handle and attacking me over his own perceptions and not actual reality. He went on to say we were done and he wanted no part of me in his life. He then blocked me on social media

I was still at my mothers whilst he was sending me these messages and I became very upset and was crying. My mum said she wasn’t going to take sides and refused to acknowledge that my brother was acting wrongly. I told her it wasn’t about picking sides but I felt let down that she refused to acknowledge he was in the wrong and that I hadn’t done anything. I also brought up the horrible things he had done to me growing up and how everyone walked on eggshells around him so as not to set him off, and asked how she couldn’t see that he had not grown out of that behaviour. I then left my mothers house in tears. My mother then phoned my brother and relayed everything I had said to her and offered comfort to my brother who was upset. My brother then messaged me again to say leave our mother alone and to stop bitching about him to her.

My brother has not contacted me since to apologise and my mother is not speaking to me either. I am incredibly upset over all of this and have been crying since Sunday because of it, but I feel they should apologise to me and not the other way round.

So, AIBU?

I think you should stay out of it, RedRep. Things may change regarding your brother and nephew in the future. At the moment it is tricky and I feel sorry for the boy crying over his dad - I hope you weren't the one to bring the subject up in conversation.

@WineIsMyMainVice yes I did think about offering money but feel scared my brother will kick off again and say I’m trying to force him to see H and I’m sticking my nose in. I just feel wretched because our own father walked out on us when we were kids and behaved in the same way as my brother is doing now. My brother knows how this made us both feel as kids yet is behaving the same way.

Right but you can not force, cajole or any otherwise make him better.

You say he has form for being a shit too you. If so, you cant be surprised by his reaction. You certainly werent treading on egg shells that day. But if he is this type, the yes he was going to kick off.

Your mum is probably pissed off that you wouldnt drop it at a gathering she was having and everyone ended up leaving upset or annoyed and you then tried to out her in the middle of an argument.

my brother said before the visit that we should FaceTime him on the Sunday so he could see H and hear about our weekend. And H was very upset when he didn’t answer or call back. I don’t know why my brother suggested it then ignored us on the day.

You are interfering in something than is nothing to do with you, and you are doing so for your own reasons, not out of altruism. You should just have left the situation alone.

You now know to stay completely out of it. Just be a good auntie and reduce your contact with your brother significantly, he’s not going to turn into a good father because you pressure him and he doesn’t sound great to be around either. That way you can at least say to H, ‘I don’t see him very often either’.

Your mum will never be an ally to you.

I am “interfering” because a) my brother acts like he is interested in my nephew and is happy to talk about him on his own terms I.e when he has been to visit him. But he doesn’t like it if someone else visits him and dares mention it in his presence. And b) because I do not like seeing my nephew upset when he lets him down again.

I have reported my (insanely long!) post for deletion. I am a dolt, apologies to all.

But yes I am staying out of it now. If I see my brother again i will not bring up H.

You need to take a step back from your brother. By all means have as much contact as you like with H, but you're better off staying out of their relationship.

I would say you’ve hit a nerve with him, he knows he’s being a shit parent with regards to his son and the lack of contact with him.

I wonder if your brothers fiancée isn’t keen on him having regular contact with his other son, just a thought which is why he reacted the way he did.

Your mum, well your brother is obviously the golden child who can do no wrong, if I was you I would wait for her and your brother to contact you and I would continue to keep in contact with his son but don’t mention it to your brother or mum and if they ask why say it only causes problems when I mention him so thats why I don’t, or better still just say I don’t want to discuss it and change the subject.

Out of interest does your mum see her other grandson?

A isnt anything you can do anything about. Trying to to force him to do anything wont work. And you dont need to

B must be upsetting but you cant fix that.

You especially cant fix that by just bringing H up again and again at a party.

Did you apologise to your mother?

“I am “interfering” because a) my brother acts like he is interested in my nephew and is happy to talk about him on his own terms I.e when he has been to visit him. But he doesn’t like it if someone else visits him and dares mention it in his presence. And b) because I do not like seeing my nephew upset when he lets him down again.”

Correct.

It does seem like if you were trying to push him to call and mentioned a could of times something he didn't want to talk about. You could have done it more discreetly at another occasion, or just said once 'pkease ring h, they are upset that they barely get to talk to you'. While your intentions were good, faceting together would obviously paint you in an even better light next to your brother ( the child would or it to you he rang, and they'd know it as you would be in the picture).

@Weezol - thanks for the report about your accidental copy and paste...oops!

We've withdrawn it for you now.

As you were, everyone.

I think this is a wise decision TBH. No one likes to see children upset ,but you are a kind Auntie to be so concerned .Just relax now ,you must not cry as you have done all you can, and your DB is obviously not on board with the contact involving his son.His loss not yours !

I have a golden child sister. She makes awful life choices, gets drunk at family parties and then rants about what I might be thinking.

One the few occasions that her poor decisions have impacted on me or my DCs and I have challenged her, my mother has laid into me for upsetting her. We are all expected to carefully filter what we say in case she manages to divine some implicit criticism from it, to pander to her every whim when she's around and never ask her to lift a finger to help anyone.

TBH, it's all too much effort and I've pretty much gone NC. It isn't too difficult as she lives a couple of hours away and only visits my mum a couple of times a year now. Mum rarely speaks about her to me now.

Your DB isn't going to change so, in your shoes, I would reduce contact with him, keep in touch with your nephew and update your mum on how he's doing. Don't engage in conversations about your DB with your mum.

No my mum doesn’t really see him. Me and DH asked if she would come with us on the last visit but she couldn’t get time off work. My mum always sends him birthday cards, Christmas presents and Easter eggs and she sends him Halloween sweetie hampers and toys and stuff. My mum has had many discussions with me about how she wishes my brother would step up and have more contact and it’s disappointing after our own dad did this to us, but she won’t say it to my brother because he has a temper and I think we are all a bit scared of him. I have arranged with J to pick H up and bring him here for a week in the summer holidays so all our family will have time with him but now my mum and brother aren’t speaking to me I don’t even know how it’s going to work.

Bring him for the holiday. If they don't want to see him that's their loss.

Out of interest, does your Mum treat all the Grandchildren the same?

She might be feeling a bit guilty or she doesn't know what she should do about it.

You can't force people to be the Parents that they should be.

Yanbu
Someone needs to tell him. Obviously your whole family just panders to him because he has anger issues.
He should be parenting his own child and its shameful he isn't. He's reacting in anger to being called out shows he knows what he's doing.
I wouldnt want anything to do with a man like that tbh.
Just see your nephew because he deserves a nice family and encourage his mum to go through the CSA.
Explain to your mum that shes enabling her son being a neglectful parent and misogynist. It's sad she values his feelings over her own grandsons wellbeing.

@Goldmandra this is exactly what it is like in my family with my brother. Everything you have said I have experienced too. It’s so hard and I hate the tiptoeing around but if I bring anything up that provokes my brother, I am the bad one for not keeping the peace. I think low to NC is the best option. Thanks for your reply.

X post.

Your Mum is scared of him by the sounds of it. So don't push her to do anything.

Ignore your Brother and just carry on. It'll blow over.

You probably made him feel guilty... dont think you should have encouraged the facetime, he clearly wants nothing to do with his son and you're making that difficult