To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

This has gone on for years but more so now due to budget cuts and academisation. I think parents would be shocked to know that science & reprographics technicians (with no quals or experience) are regularly asked to teach gcse science. PE teachers are teaching maths and English to year 7s so that year11s can have extra maths and English sessions wih their M&E teachers (and be taken out of PE entirely) and not just on a one off cover basis but from Xmas right through to July.

I think it’s crazy tbh. In Ireland we don’t have TA’s, we have SNA’s (special needs assistant) and they are there to aid a specific child. If a teacher is out they CANNOT teach a class (they are not even counted as an extra adult when on a school tour etc as they are only assigned to 1 child) they are not there to aid the teacher, they are there to aid the child.

Not sure this is particularly relevant because we don't know what her current duties are as a TA. However , FYI, in England different schools use TAs in different ways and the number and roles they fulfil varies enormously from school to school. In mainstream schools we have one-to-one TAs that work with a named child with SEND that are supernumerary (so like your SNAs), but we also have general TAs that work within the class, to support the teacher and the children; the jobs they do can be totally different in different schools.

Id be worried if they hadnt at least reached A level standard educationally before this. I had a few TA's while teaching, & while they were great at practical stuff & acting on my lesson plans, I honestly think they'd have really struggled with the theory & 2,000 word essays every 6weeks, of my degree course. They were all mothers in their first part time job after having their children leave home & they all struggled with discipline if given more than 4children in a group activity, which surprised me, as I was very unconfident socially, but never had problems controlling a class. (very lively, large class of 36, with hugely differing abilities & SN child with physical & learning issues).

It’s disheartening to see how many people think “classroom experience” makes someone capable of designing learning experiences that meet the needs of different groups, challenge students of all levels, lead towards a set of defined learning goals, build on previous learning, are aligned with the curriculum, take account of ethical considerations, literacy, numeracy and “values” and so on. It is not just a case of being good with kids. Teaching is not - and must not be - a profession in which we can employ any basically nice human. No disrespect to TAs but I have met some crackers, and I don’t mean that in a good way. The barriers to entry that ensure even basic standards of literacy, numeracy and intelligence do not exist. And I don’t say that because I haven’t worked with good TAs - I have. But you can be a TA with very few qualifications. I don’t want my DD’s education handed over to a person with very few qualifications.

One of the crucial jobs you have in primary is to introduce children to the different subject strands and how they are approached. We build in space to develop an understanding of how that subject functions at a higher level. While we don't expect young children to get this, having had it makes it then possible for them to grasp the more complex stuff when they encounter it at GCSE/A'level. Someone on here said it in a different post - it is about understanding the subject and how it is approached. It is a significant factor in achieving success.

TAs do not have space to develop this skill - it comes from having been immersed in your subject for 3 years. They may certainly be capable of developing the skill, which is a different matter

Quite right hercule. And while I am sure plenty of TAs would make fantastic teachers it totally undermines those who spent time at university learning these things

@AllPizzasGreatAndSmall my point being TA’s are NOT teachers! Like a pp just said the qualifications needed to be a TA are significantly lower than those needed to be a teacher.

It’s like saying; shall we just let a carer walk into a hospital and be a surgeon and give it a go “because you learn more on the job” and then do a medical degree access course at the same time for one day a week!! I don’t think so.

Ok, well this does change my attitude. I assumed TA was training. I wouldn't be happy if my DC was being taught by someone without the qualifications.

I also wonder about accountability - you cannot put that level of accountability on someone paid so little. The whole point of professional qualifications is to provide redress when something goes wrong - it is how they are internally governed. Establish good practice, find solutions, check resources and then when something goes wrong you can see why and make the necessary changes/remove the obstacles/people, etc It is a system designed to protect children. My last TA made some shocking mistakes regarding incorrect facts in science. Young children take that stuff in and it is hard to remove once a figure in authority has told them. Amongst teachers, this is less likely to happen.

apologies for errors, am tired now

No.

I would be cross.

You want to be a teacher you get yourself a university qualification and do it properly.

Cost cutting for schools. Undermining for proper teachers.

No don’t worry. I trained in a similar way. Parents were openly worried I was teaching their children...and then they got A’s in their GCSEs. Sounds like your teacher has experience in the school which is much more than I started with.

Also, please correct me if I am wrong but the quota for teachers is based on the number of children in the school - it should never be an option to cut this as the money comes from the DoE and is based on this ratio.

I have noticed a rise in staff who are friends of SLT coming into schools and going in at high pay levels. This must be a factor since they did away with automatic pay portabilty, introduced performance pay and left much to the Head's discretion.

Academies Supergirl

I was a science technician in a secondary school. When I left the school was beginning to mutter about getting us to teach classes - no training, no preparation, we'd just have been bodies to stand in front of the class.

In fact I do have a degree and a teaching qualification, the other techs didn't, and I objected anyway to being paid a tech's salary and do a teacher's work (they weren't going to pay any extra!!!) If I wanted to teach I was qualified to go off and teach - I didn't want to.

I trained in a similar way.

Bet you didn’t, myohmy. Bet you had a degree.

It’s a bit worrying that because of schools direct people think that anyone can just rock up and teach from day one with a bit of supervision.

Supergirlthesecond

Did you do Teach First or similar?

NQTs have the latest research implemented into their training

Sigh.

The old, discarded research was the latest shiny new research once..........

I work in education and my dc is going in to year 3. She goes to a good school and has had fantastic teachers so far. I am a school governor also and know that lots of the TA's are really capable. My dc school is planning on training up TA's to a higher level so they can cover staff absences and reduce bank teacher costs- no problem with this as at least TA's know the kids and as a temp measure is better than a qualified unknown teacher racking up for a day or two.

Personally I value the skills that trained teachers have (I was one) and would be concerned if this was the case for my dc. I would want to know why this was happening- who is planning the lessons and who is supervising the TA? Who is teaching the one day that TA is studying? Year 3 is a less demanding year than the others though.

I would assume the OP just used the wrong terminology and the teacher is doing what was the GTP, or SCATT, teach first type thing and it is her training she's going off to do not a degree. When I did mine (secondary level) I taught 4 days a week and was on courses 1 day. The courses were very highly sought after as it was a paid route to qualification, so standards were high...I'm sure this is still the case.b

I would assume the OP just used the wrong terminology

Nope. The TA does not have a degree.

It’s all getting a bit silly now, isn’t it? Used to be you couldn’t teach until you qualified (with a teaching degree as well as your primary degree). Then you couldn’t teach until you were training (with a teaching degree). Then you couldn’t teach until you were training (with any degree). Then you couldn’t teach until you were training. With fuck all.

I'm sorry but some TAs are not better than teachers. Exactly as PPs have said there is a LOT more to teaching than being good with kids and taking groups or individuals to work with.

Here in Scotland TAs are called Pupil Support Assistants and they are there to support. Many are excellent but many have little to no education and I find that what I can ask.them to do can be limited.

Here in Scotland you must have a relevant degree to teach- in Secondary you must have a degree ( or equivalent credits at university) on your subject. I am appalled that in England/ Wales there are teachers teaching subjects in years 7-9 will no qualification in that subject.

There is no such scheme as the OP mentions here, TAs/ PSAs must apply for PGCE like everyone else and do the training before becoming a probationer before qualifying.

OP I would not be pleased at my child having a probationer/ NQT nevermind a TA.

@herculepoirot neither, degree then PGCE