To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

*degree IN your subject.

I wouldn’t worry about a TAs ability to teach. But I would worry about the integrity of a school who would expect teacher level commitment to work on TA wages. That TA will work insanely hard and be paid a pittance. Absolutely disgusting and I would not trust a school who would treat staff this way.

Supergirlthesecond

Fair enough.

I did do an “on the job” route, but I only did it because I was a career changer. In all honesty, I think I would have been a better teacher, faster, doing a PGCE. However, what the route I took into teaching did do was screen for basic professional competencies relevant to teaching: resilience, reflection, work ethic (especially!), teamwork, etc. And I needed a relevant 2.1 from a good uni (Oxbridge in my case) to do it.

@Littlepond yes. And it will be very difficult for a conscientious TA to pull back/hold back from acting as a teacher and stay 'within her pay'

I'm surprised by the number of people who assume all TAs are not well educated. Whilst they may not have a PGCE and are not qualified to teach, many of the TAs in the school I work in are as well or better educated than some of the teachers. Amongst our TAs we have many with degrees, at least one that has a phd, who previously worked in a professional capacity, but TA hours work well for them currently.
Some people choose to work as a TA after their degree, rather than going straight to a PGCE, which I think would be a good idea for all potential teachers.
Whilst I know it's generally bad form to correct grammar, it's quite worrying to see so many people putting an apostrophe in TAs.

@herculepoirot 2 and I would bet that you were accepted because of your proven standard of education which indicated that you would be able to follow the subject sense behind the work your dept gave you. That, to me, is crucial because you need everyone to keep up the momentum and cannot carry staff who question fairly basic subject stuff.

But, we are in agreement on most things here, aren't we? You did some postgrad training. I did the Oxford internship PGCE - prob very similar.

I'm surprised by the number of people who assume all TAs are not well educated. Whilst they may not have a PGCE and are not qualified to teach, many of the TAs in the school I work in are as well or better educated than some of the teachers.

And while that might be the case, there is no guarantee it is.

Supergirlthesecond

I think you’re right, yes.

Jesus Christ.

And this is why education is in a shit state. Because it's not that hard - some TAs are better than teachers... and lots more of these comments.

I did 2 years of A levels, a 3 year degree, a year's PGCE (post graduate certificate of education for the uninitiated) and a year's probation as an NQT before I was qualified to teach my subject. 7 years in total. I've since had a great many years doing the job.

You've no idea how thrilled I am to have so many people suggest a bit of classroom experience or being keen on kids means you can rock up and do my job.

This is giving children the message that their education isn't that important - anyone will do to teach them. You don't need to be qualified - and therefore, if you don't need qualifications to do something like, ooh, teaching? then what's the point of them working to get any? Great message to be giving out to students.

I'm fucking excellent at sewing by the way - and I got A level Biology. Does anyone fancy letting me have a go at whipping out their appendix...surgery looks like you don't need to be that qualified.

@herculepoirot - it isn't about that for me, though. I am doing supply now and some days I accept teaching assistant posts (I am a teacher so it has only been on a few occasions and to help out the agency). In one role, you are the driving force and in the other, you are supporting. They are very different roles and TAs have chosen to work as TAs. Teaching is n't being a TA 'a bit more'.

Supergirlthesecond

Well, exactly. It’s not an apprenticeship-style thing. A TA supports the student, not the teacher.

I'm fucking excellent at sewing by the way - and I got A level Biology. Does anyone fancy letting me have a go at whipping out their appendix...surgery looks like you don't need to be that qualified.

I read ‘Whatever Next’ and have an A at Maths GCSE.

Physics?

@BloodyhellMarta - exactly. What message are we really sending out and for whose benefit?

And, it does need to be said. This doesn't happen in private schools. The whole 'we have staff w/o postgrad teaching quals ' does not reflect how those schools function. They are very different places to work in, with different structures, organisational methods and accountability to different bodies. Most private schools, in my experience, do encourage training and recognise it benefits the profession as a whole, but crucially, they can pull in high achieving grads to focus solely on their subject because they have house masters/mistresses, additional pastoral staff, chaplains, coaches, etc to deal with other stuff at a scale that doesn't happen in the state system.

Phenomenal difference between graduate in subject at secondary to TA with childcare quals. No comparison, in fact. TA with degree? prob doesn't want to teach at that time and if they are not being paid, why should they?

It is unlikely that a school would sponsor a TA to do a degree and be an unqualified teacher unless they held her in high regard and had seen some great potential in them. I would expect her mentor to work closely with her to support her planning and curriculum knowledge. It is likely that she has already shown good behaviour management and may have experience covering classes. She is likely to be doing an education degree and that will greatly enhance her pedagogy from the outset. After she has completed a degree then the school will most likely support her to do a salaried route into QTS. This is all perfectly legal as a maintained school can employ an unqualified teacher as long as they are pursuing qualified teacher status within 4 years. Academies can employ an unqualified person to teach for as long as they like. With budget cuts this is a common way to save money. Hopefully your child's school is also thinking they are moulding themselves an outstanding teacher.

Here in Scotland TAs are called Pupil Support Assistants

Not always. They are often called LAs (learning assistants).

many have little to no education

Many have YEARS of experience and have been on numerous specialist courses.

I would not be pleased at my child having a probationer

😂😂. Probationers are very well supported by qualified teachers in my experience in Primary schools and their mentor has always overseen learning plans etc before they are delivered.

And while that might be the case, there is no guarantee it is.

No, and they don't need to be. My point was that some people were posting about TAs as if they are all less intelligent/well educated than teachers, when actually for lots the only difference is that they have not trained to be teachers and actually in some cases they know a lot more.
I don't agree with TAs being used instead of teachers, because they have not trained as teachers, but that is the only reason.

I think you need to give it a term and see. If you are in England the reception year has historically always been well scrutinised as the data is reported to county (in state schools).

The type of TAs who have done well to go on to be teachers, IMO, are people who could have been excellent teachers at any point in their lives, and happened to take TA roles because it suited their family need at the time.

Some of the opinions on this thread are utterly depressing.

No, I would NOT be happy with this, not for my child and not within my school. For whoever said teaching year 3 is easy-piss off. Whoever said anyone can teach EYFS, also, piss off. Just because any idiot can stand in front of a class of kids and rabbit on, it does NOT mean that those children are receiving a good education, or making progress. Teaching is not just walking in and imparting knowledge on children. These children are usually at wildly varying levels, with wildly varying needs.

Yes, some TAs can and rightly should become teachers, if they so wish. No, not every TA could be a teacher. This person doesn't have a degree, does she have A levels? What is her basic standard of grammar, of maths?

I hate what has happened to my profession. Would you let someone with GCSE maths do your accounts? Biology A level-hey, you can be a GP! What about Law at A level, should you be allowed to be a solicitor as you 'train on the job?'

I trained on the job. I had an English degree, and a post grad law qualification, and then I worked in a school for a few months. Then, I started my training where I did not have my own class but worked alongside my very experienced mentor. I studied, and went to uni every fortnight. I'm a bloody good teacher, and I became a good senior leader. But I resigned, because I'd had enough of the bullshit

She won't be qualified to take charge of the class after a term.

It's utterly unacceptable - a money saving exercise or happening because they can't recruit staff.

@AllPizzasGreatandsmall see, its this part that irks me

'hey have not trained to be teachers and actually in some cases they know a lot more.'

Why are we so defensive of TAs ability and yet so quick to criticise new/young teachers in the classroom? How is anyone supposed to 'become a teacher' if they are shot down by the 'experience', in a different role, by established non teaching staff? What other jobs do this to new entrants?

In my last role, two mature women who were mothers argued about a teaching point with me and one said that as she was a mother and I wasn't, she could see what I couldn't see. The other woman, also a parent, agreed with her. Talk about a kick in the stomach for all those years studying.

I actually have more teaching years experience than them, too. We have to stop idolising TAs and dismantle this erroneous competitiveness with NQTs/young staff. That is one of the real reasons so many are leaving.

@ilovesooty - I agree. And it will be the other (qualified) staff who will oversee her work, provide resources, step in for behavioural stuff and keep an eye out when they should be concentrating on their classes. Traditionally, this babysitting was done by a mentor and the university/college training dept, that way it didn't fall on existing teaching staff.

I hate what has happened to my profession. Would you let someone with GCSE maths do your accounts? Biology A level-hey, you can be a GP!

Anyone can understand the content of year three though and teach it. It’s not high-level stuff so your comparisons make no sense. In no way is an experienced TA working towards a degree the same as someone with just a science A-Level becoming a GP.

If the OP was referring to secondary school or even year 5/6 then more people would be annoyed.

Where have you got this info from op? Sounds like playground gossip that's lost a bit in translation. Yes, TAs often have day release to do an education-based degree but they will still be a TA until they graduate and it's only then that they can apply to a school for teacher training on the job or do a PGCE. At least it was the last time I looked.

@Zoobluebabypink

'Anyone can understand the content of year three though and teach it.' and yet there is a recruitment and retention crisis for that age.

I wonder why? Did you catch any of the debate on fronted adverbials???!!!

Anyone can understand the content of year three though and teach it.

Jeez because if you can understand it, you don’t need to know anything at all about how children learn in order to teach it.