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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect a teacher to be qualified?

347 replies

Sunnysummer1 · 05/07/2019 19:13

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

OP posts:
Supergirlthesecond · 05/07/2019 19:59

I am stunned at the number of teachers supporting this.

BeardyButton · 05/07/2019 20:00

"Hardly difficult to teach primary kids is it"

This poster is either from US or UK. You can tell from attitude to education. In other European countries primary teaching is an prestigious, well paid, well respected job. So so sad that this is the attitude some govs foster by employing under qualified people, and paying them peanuts.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/07/2019 20:00

Yes, you are right to be concerned. I'm not saying for one moment that the work of TAs isn't sometimes invaluable. But they are not teachers. It's a distinct, separate, support role. TAs' work should complement that of teachers, not supplant it, but unfortunately the latter strategy isn't unheard of as a means of procuring cheap labour. And if it becomes commonplace, a decline in standards is probably inevitable. Sorry, but it is.

My DC's TA has helped her little phonics group come on in leaps and bounds with their reading. She's incredibly good. But small group teaching, whilst effective, is not the same as curriculum planning and differentiating for a whole class on a regular basis. Some are brilliant at supporting SEN children, or in a variety of different strengths. Even learning their own profession, under the supervision and guidance of already-qualified teachers, is a long-established practice and it works. No issues with any of that. But the supervision is key here.

Qualified teacher status exists for a reason. It's wrong enough that HLTAs are permitted or expected to teach whole classes on their own. But for TA without QTS to have sole jurisdiction over an entire Year 3 class is definitely not on, and as a parent I'd be asking questions. I'm also not sure it isn't breaking some official guideline, but am willing to be corrected on this.

The role of the TA is necessary to schools, but different from that of a teacher. YANBU.

herculepoirot2 · 05/07/2019 20:01

Year 3? That wouldn't bother me. I dont think you need to know too much to teach that age.

That’s surprising, given the number of people who post on MN complaining about spelling errors in school comms. Hmm

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2019 20:01

Secondary school physics teach for example, I would expect to have a masters in physics and a teaching qualification.

That’s very unlikely to be the case! Don’t ask who is teaching your kid maths, either.

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2019 20:02

the teacher has an nvq level 3 in child care. Not a degree.

Oh bloody hell. No, this isn’t good.

Bourbonbiccy · 05/07/2019 20:02

I can see both sides to this and probably would have to see how she goes in the 1st term.

Surely the teaching degree shows they have achieved certain standards and net criteria to become a teacher. My husband is a very accomplished spark, but you have to be qualified by the governing body in order to become and electrician.

But having said that, I do not, for one minute, think that just because you have a qualification you are a good teacher in the practical sense.

So I think you would have to wait and see how the 1st term goes.

Supergirlthesecond · 05/07/2019 20:03

yes @Mariel

Also, she won't be paid on the teacher's scale - which is unfair on her and her colleagues who will have to help her

herculepoirot2 · 05/07/2019 20:03

Teachers follow schemes of work and their planning will be checked too. There are book trawls, observations and data input throughout the year so everything will be monitored

Teachers write their own short and medium term plans. Who else do you think is going to do it?

Breathlessness · 05/07/2019 20:05

Yes, I’d be concerned.

Youmadorwhat · 05/07/2019 20:05

@BeardyButton YES!! Teachers in the uk are in general worked into the ground, paid quire poorly and treated like shit!
I’m in Ireland and it couldn’t be any different here imo, we are highly respected by pupils and parents (some may disagree though) and paid very well! We don’t have TA’s in our classes. TA’s don’t exist here as they do in the UK.

HiJenny35 · 05/07/2019 20:06

Nope I disagree, it undermines education. Yes private schools have been doing this for years and the government have allowed accademies the same, this allows them to make huge savings as they don't need to pay qualified teachers. Dreadful idea.

ThanksItHasPockets · 05/07/2019 20:08

I think a lot of people have misunderstood the situation.

The student is not doing a PGCE, or Teach First. These are postgraduate qualifications / schemes for which you first have to be a graduate.

Teaching is a graduate profession. It is not possible to qualify fully as a teacher in the UK without completing a bachelor’s degree at the minimum. The teacher in question is most likely studying for a BEd with QTS, which is usually three or four years full-time. If she is doing it part-time then it could be five or six years before she graduates as a ‘newly qualified teacher’.

OP seems particularly knowledgeable about this woman’s specific qualifications. Is this a reverse?

ilovesooty · 05/07/2019 20:08

If she had 7 children it wouldn't make her qualified to plan and be responsible for a class.

noblegiraffe · 05/07/2019 20:08

I bet private schools aren’t hiring unqualified teachers who don’t have a degree but do have an NVQ.

Notcopingwellhere · 05/07/2019 20:10

I am shocked that this is legal.

CheesecakeAddict · 05/07/2019 20:10

As someone who mentors School Direct trainees, it does sound like that as they do tend to have one day a week in uni doing theory based learning.
But more likely salaried as that is the only way I can work out that a) they get their own class and b) work over the 11 hours of teaching per week.

As a parent, would it bother me? I want to yes but I have seen some spectacularly shit teachers pass training because schools are so desperate for teachers, so I would give her a chance and keep a close eye on progress.

herculepoirot2 · 05/07/2019 20:10

Also - and I am going to be flamed for this but it’s worth saying - a private school choosing to bypass the PGCE to hire a person with a PhD in the relevant discipline isn’t the same as school employing a former TA to teach primary. The private school will usually be selecting from a position of strength: they could, if they wished, hire the PGCE. They’re not paying less, they just think the PhD meets their needs better, rightly or wrongly. Why is it becoming common for unqualified teachers to work in state schools? Because it’s cheaper, or because they can’t recruit. Hardly the same guarantee.

CheesecakeAddict · 05/07/2019 20:12

X post
Level 3????
So she is not doing teacher training then because you need a degree to do that!!
I take my last post back, I would be demanding answers.

Schoolchoicesucks · 05/07/2019 20:13

I don't think you need to know too much to teach that age. Secondary school physics on the other hand I would expect a masters

Sadly it's very unlikely that most physics teachers in any school have masters in Physics. If you're lucky, those teaching GCSE and a levels have an undergrad degree in it.

Supergirlthesecond · 05/07/2019 20:13

@herculepoirot - and it happens at secondary when the focus is on the studied subject, not primary when you have to do all areas

herculepoirot2 · 05/07/2019 20:13

Supergirlthesecond

Indeed.

Minxmumma · 05/07/2019 20:17

From the age / childless side of things if she has already been a TA for several years she will have plenty of practical classroom experience with the children.

My daughter is doing her PGCE in Sept she will be 23. So yes young and definately childless. HOWEVER she has worked in classrooms for 4 years while doing her degree (in drama (Don't ask!)) and has volunteered as a leader with a global youth organisation since she was 14.
She has more actual hands on experience than lots of her peers.

Don't worry without cause. See how it goes.

fedup21 · 05/07/2019 20:17

Year 3? That wouldn't bother me. I dont think you need to know too much to teach that age. Secondary school physics teach for example, I would expect to have a masters in physics and a teaching qualification.

Brilliant Grin

LemonGingerCakes · 05/07/2019 20:17

Older teachers are expensive, so they get rid of them. Newer qualified teachers are cheaper.

Unqualified teachers are cheaper still. Let’s get rid of qualified teachers.

After all, it’s not a difficult job, really, is it?

There are good and bad all over, but it’s actually all about the money and paying people as little as possible.

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