To expect a teacher to be qualified?

[Sunnysummer1]

My ds is about to start year 3 in September & I have just found out his teacher is not a qualified teacher. She has been an teaching assistant for a few years & is starting a teaching degree which she will do one afternoon a week. She has a teaching assistant qualification nvq, but nothing else. I have heard that she is a good teaching assistant and my ds likes her. She is supported by the deputy and will have a teaching assistant in the classroom in the morning. I’m trying not to worry but it just doesn’t sit comfortably with me as I thought teachers had to have a degree. She is fairly young; under 30 & doesn’t have children, if that makes any difference. Would it bother you?

If this person has a degree it's acceptable as lots of excellent private school teachers don't have a PGCE.
If this person doesn't have a degree, I would be withdrawing my child from the school.

They have spent the last academic year training with the school's full support.

And presumably they already had a degree and went through a recognised training route.

@Youngandfree true but that is very uneven - my first placement they stopped watching me after about 2 weeks!

I don’t believe a teaching qualification (although obviously this TA is on the road to get one) is essential to be a good teacher.

So, should we scrap teacher training then?

The quality of what she delivers is what is important - not a piece of paper. If she does a good job, knows the children and the curriculum etc then she will be as good, or better.

having a teaching degree does not a good teacher make, as private schools have understood for years. The gift of teaching cannot, imho, be taught, you either have it or you don't. I'd see how things go.

the most inspiring teacher i ever had (big public school) was not qualified but he was a Cambridge PhD and was utterly committed to getting the best out of each and every student. He started teaching at 6.30 am for his G&T group and finished his duties late into the night - and expected the same dedication from us. I bumped into him a few years later with his wife when he described my abilities most kindly. I think it was one of the highest compliments anyone has ever paid me.

So, should we scrap teacher training then?

No.

Still doesn’t mean I think a teacher needs to always be qualified.

Are you sure she’s starting a teaching degree and not starting teacher training (e.g Schools Direct)? If the facts are as you state in your OP, it would bother me.

To the PP who mentioned parents aghast at the move from Y6 to Y2- when I moved from Y6 to Y5, the amount of parents who thought I’d been demoted was incredible!

As PP said, a long of older teachers are too stuck in their old ways, and are too traditional and stubborn to change. Trainees and NQTs have some of the newest research implemented into their training and teaching from day 1
I would rofl at this but it would label me as a dinosaur. The amount of times I watch the same initiatives being wheeled back around again...

You can't do a PgCE if you haven't got a degree that's the Pg bit

@NeverGotMyPuppy

"Do people.not realise that in order to qualify as a teacher you have to do placements - lots of peoples children would have been taught by unqualified teachers!"

Yes but in my school that is always with a qualified teacher in the room who has checked lesson plans etc and will step in if necessary. They wouldn't be taken on as the main teacher of that class.

Has no one made the link yet between the huge increase in teachers leaving in their first 5 years and the rise of these alternative routes in? Perhaps, just perhaps, asking people to choose a subject to study for 3 years and then specialising in education for one year ensured you got people in who were more likely to stay the distance, develop departments and the discipline, get to a stage where they could employ innovative tactics for children who respond to them, work independently and hold open the space for the next generation of teachers to come through.

Optomisticpessimist do you not see this as a slippery slope into devaluing the profession?

DH has a friend who is very academic and with relevant industry experience who now teaches in a well regarded independent fee paying school. He doesn't have a pgce no one cares

the most inspiring teacher i ever had (big public school) was not qualified but he was a Cambridge PhD and was utterly committed to getting the best out of each and every student

Brilliant. But if you scrapped teacher training, or even needing a degree-I don’t imagine there would be a glut of people destined to be amazing-with Oxbridge PhDs- champing at the bit to apply.

What about all the others without a degree or teaching qualification who decide to just ‘give teaching a go’?

Don’t we want more for our children?

I think it’s crazy tbh. In Ireland we don’t have TA’s, we have SNA’s (special needs assistant) and they are there to aid a specific child. If a teacher is out they CANNOT teach a class (they are not even counted as an extra adult when on a school tour etc as they are only assigned to 1 child) they are not there to aid the teacher, they are there to aid the child.

The gift of teaching cannot, imho, be taught, you either have it or you don't.

This is bullshit. Teaching is a skill that, like anything else, can be improved. Everyone is a bit shit when they start out, experience makes a massive difference, but so does learning about how kids learn.

It sounds like it might be a scheme like Schools Direct? Having done a PGCE, I wouldn't say that they equip anyone to teach more than working in a school necessarily, but I guess it's an equal playing field. If you have concerns raise them, they must have considered the risks etc and should be able to provide some reassurance.

Being under 30 and having no children shouldn't make a different for ANY job. Both things are irrelevant to how well someone can do their job and it's slightly condescending to mention either.

She's training for her degree. She has lots of experience. She will have an assistant. She'll be following a set curriculum and is supported by the deputy. Your child likes her. So what exactly is the problem? What are you worried about?

@shieldmaidenofrohan

the most inspiring teacher i ever had (big public school) was not qualified but he was a Cambridge PhD and was utterly committed to getting the best out of each and every student. He started teaching at 6.30 am for his G&T group and finished his duties late into the night - and expected the same dedication from us.

You know, a lot of people would point out that if someone had to work so much outside of normal hours it could be because of their lack of training. Perhaps they would have liked doing the PGCE. It wasn't always easy to get on it if you had a PHd as the view was that you were too removed from the childrens curriculum.

Wouldn't bother me, loads of trainee teachers nowadays do their training whilst employed in a school rather than a year pgce in a university lecture hall with a few placements.

Ultimately the school could have given the trainee opportunity to someone with a degree in a completely unrelated field - I'd much rather it go to someone with solid classroom experience which is invaluable.

I'd feel differently if she wasnt training to be a qualified teacher though.

As a teacher this would not concern me. Teachers follow schemes of work and their planning will be checked too. There are book trawls, observations and data input throughout the year so everything will be monitored

Year 3? That wouldn't bother me. I dont think you need to know too much to teach that age. Secondary school physics teach for example, I would expect to have a masters in physics and a teaching qualification.

I have worked with a nursery nurse who was capable of planning and teaching a class of nursery children. Had been doing so while a number of supply teachers came through the nursery. Depends on the person.

You can learn to teach better and get better with experience, but some people start off better than others.

Just to it make clearer, the teacher has an nvq level 3 in child care. Not a degree.
The only reason I mentioned that she is young & doesn’t have children is because I wondered if it made a difference with experience.