Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

Years ago, I was the only one in my office not going on multiple holidays a year, I enjoyed hearing all about them. Now income increased, childcare costs reduced, living with partner, I go on multiple holidays. I still enjoy hearing about others. There will always be someone more fortunate than you, make the most of what you have

“There is a reason radfems equate marriage with sex work: in both situations you're often being paid as a female by a male”

What a load of bollocks.

I’ve got no time for radfems or indeed any extremist views.
I’m not a lone parent so that’s not an issue for me, although a very real one for many women

For me, it’s about coming at it from a completely practical perspective: proportionately women are far less secure than men. Particularly in their later life when proportionately as a group they are more likely to outlive their partner.

The fact that on an individual level there are posters here protesting that they are the higher earner, or their dh is a SAHD, doesn’t negate the statistics.

No personal axe to grind here because I work full time, earn very similar level to my DH and my pension is almost as good as his. It took a bit of a knock because I worked pt while the kids were babies, but it’s still enough to live on should dh predecease me.

I think the way the OP is worded is perhaps not the best, but it raises an important issue about women’s vulnerability and the fact they often can’t see it until it’s too late

there is nothing wrong with working pt or in a low paid job which is below your level of qualification and ability IF you understand the long term impact of it.

many of us do, I took a step back for awhile. The priority was my kids and I decided that the impact on me being away for 12 hours a day would be a lot worst than the risk of us having to live with much lower finances should the worst happen.
I still prioritise my kids now and when they will be young adults than I prioritise my own pension. I mean I could put all my saving in my pension pot and not help them out with uni and their deposit when the time comes.

Doing things for your family and not be as bitter as some posters on this thread is not a bad thing. You can't put your life around the worst case scenario all the time.

Is it the norm to be in a two income household after a certain age?

I’m a LL single income full time parent

I fucking love it and every month when I make it through the bills and responsibilities I have, I give myself a high five. I overcome my particular mountains

Who cares what anyone else does to get over theirs?

@Theyroamoverhere that’s mental. I’ve never heard that before, learn everything new everyday.

there is a reason radfems equate marriage with sex work in both situations you're often being paid as a female by a male

especially when you are a lesbian couple.

I overcome my particular mountains

Who cares what anyone else does to get over theirs?

Most sensible comment on this thread @mooncuplanding.

Agree with you - although it’s not just women who are single. Some women are in relationships with men who earn the same or less than them.

that25cUKHeatwaveof2019

Your post sounds rather defensive (though maybe you didn’t mean it that way)
I’d say about 99.9% of parents prioritise their children, so I don’t think that’s the real issue here! And of course prioritising one’s children comes in many different forms, from working to put food in their mouths and a roof over their heads, to stopping work completely and every permutation inbetween.

My point stands, that proportionately women are vastly more vulnerable than men. And I do think a lot of them don’t realise it until too late. And by too late I don’t necessarily mean that their husband has screwed them over by running off with a younger woman... I mean things like Sickness, redundancy, death, and the more mundane but very real issues of women struggling to get back into good careers if they’ve had A lot of time out of the workplace.

And on a personal level I dropped to 3 days a week when my babies were very little, because I didn’t want to leave them 5 days a week, though I’m sure they would have been fine if I had, it was more about me not them.

The women I was referring to in my earlier post are not mums of small babies though; I think it’s often the older age group who’s children have grown but are still struggling to regain decent positions in the workplace. Sometimes due to having lost some self confidence, sometimes due to lack of awareness about their pension (very common IME that people tend not to consider the long term future, and if they can afford a comfortable life in the here and now it’s easy to forget that by the time you’re 60 + you may want to step back a bit) Probably multiple reasons contributing to it but it’s a huge problem for women in general. Of course, MN is a self selecting group and chances are the people posting here are not the ones who are most vulnerable

Gatoadigrado
it wasn't meant to be defensive against your own post especially, more defensive against some of the more bitter and unpleasant comments of the thread.

Sorry if it came across that way, your post was one of the reasonable ones of the thread.

@walkaround - saying something is hard doesn’t mean that it’s not rewarding. I don’t need to change the way my posts are worded for you. It was you who think it’s “shit” and made up some nonsense about that being the world I “aspire to”.

There are definitely benefits to be a single parent and being financially independent. Of course it’s tough and hard work too. I wouldn’t feel right living on someone else though- ultimately it’s not your money. Each to their own but it is not for me any more than living off my parents (if I was able to do so) would.

If there is a big earning disparity and you are a sahp you might think it’s “family money” but I can bet you in 90% of cases the working parent doesn’t really agree. On divorce the mask falls away and we see what they really think. Also there is a power imbalance if one party earns most of the money. How many threads are on mumsnet with women is awful relationships who don’t want to leave because of the financial impact. At the moment there is one about pensioners who have been stuck in awful relationships all their life.

I do think it’s sad that so many women still look for a “provider” rather than a good job. It wouldn’t be for me. Also the world of work (corporate work at least) is set up for men who are not actively involved with their kids. We need to change that.

What op is describing is women who don’t have to take money into account in their decisions because they don’t support themselves (and likely never have). It’s certainly irritating but also a bit creepy that they are so infantalised. There are benefits and drawbacks to being a single mum but I would much rather be capable and independent than like the women op descibes.

It’s tough being a single parent op, but worthwhile. Be proud of yourself and ignore the foolish comments.

@joyfullittlehippo I do agree with that - people supported by others and rich people often have little idea about budgeting or finances. I see the same sometimes with people whose parents set them up - they simply can’t understand why you wouldn’t be able to buy a house in the best area, etc

@thats25 I put my dds first too. That means providing for them financially too. I could provide less financially and spend more time with them and maybe I will do in future. I don’t think that’s what the op is talking about though - she’s talking about women who just don’t need to take money into account

Many people are myopic and only see things from their POV.

I get where you're coming from. I'm a single parent living on one wage and struggling although I don't ever want to rely on a man's income again. I have a friend and she brags and brags that she has this and that and expensive cars and holidays. Forgetting that if she didn't have a rich father in law who chucks money at the couple she would have nothing. She really doesn't understand my life

I'm in a 'traditional' set up. I work part time with a relatively high earning DH. I grew up in a struggling lone parent household and trust me I know exactly how lucky I am - I don't have to worry about the cost of things because my husband earns enough for us not to. I know exactly how much of a priveledge that is.

My mum gave up a great career and pension to be a SAHM. She was screwed over by my dad, by not having access to his pension when they divorced (hers went into the house) and by the housing market crash. She's now financially struggling in old age. I'm not niave, I know what could happen.

I am choosing to take that risk because we believe it's right for our family. Its not a free choice - my husband works in a male dominated industry and his request to work part time when I initially went back to work was not well received, whereas I was offered part time without even asking. But with twin dc, even on my very good salary, working full time didn't cover childcare. Now they're at school we get to choose that they aren't in after school club every day, that chores eat less into the weekends. I know that's a privilege too - but it's a privilege for both of us. Without me working part time my husband would have more chores, less fun time with his dc and he's happy they get free play time at home.
I am very lucky to have a career job (albeit lower paid than I'd go for if working full time) that keeps my future options open, and develops me. I have an amazing boss who believes family comes first. I also, as it happens, funded my husband through the two year unpaid training that's led to his career being the sole earner and allowing him to live a much better lifestyle than his fellow trainees. But I think that's irrelevant, I'm making what I think is the best choice for my family. Yes, I'm very lucky (and I don't go on about it) and yes it could bite me later in life but it's my choice.

I get where you're coming from. I'm a single parent living on one wage and struggling although I don't ever want to rely on a man's income again. I have a friend and she brags and brags that she has this and that and expensive cars and holidays. Forgetting that if she didn't have a rich father in law who chucks money at the couple she would have nothing. She really doesn't understand my life

^^

This. It's my life too

I don’t really need people to understand my life though?

I’m pretty sure most people are just doing their best to raise their families or get through life. How can we be expected to understand the intricacies of others lives?

I have moments when I think my life would be easier if I had the backup of a man (especially in circumstances right now where I am painting a ceiling) but overall I’m content enough and there is something empowering (polluted word) about doing it all yourself. Perhaps equally exhilarating as terrifying.

Yes exactly moon. Why would you need to understand anyone else’s financial set up? Are they asking you too? Is it any if your business? How is it relevant to your own life?

This only happens in MN. In real life, people are too busy getting through their own week to worry about some woman in the office or how much her DH may or not earn and how do they afford x,y,z.

I am SAHP and I like it. I have a backup plan if we divorce. But what is single parents backup plan if they fall ill and can't work anymore or only part time?

zsazsajuju - if you lose your job, eg because you become very ill, you are no longer financially independent and I'm sure you will then be looking for someone or something to fall back on. It's a non-existent person who can insulate themselves from every misfortune. Both I and my dh have to lose our jobs before our family is in genuine financial trouble. It's good that you are proud of your hard work and financial independence. You should be - your life is harder than mine. You are still in a hugely vulnerable position, though - far more vulnerable than mine. That's life. We all choose our own risks. And we all have our own misfortunes. No doubt there are even some people who say anyone who chooses to have children at all is an idiot, because that's a risky enterprise that makes you vulnerable if ever there was one. I tend to ignore people with such opinions... as I generally tend to ignore people who preach to acquaintances what sort of work they should do, what sort of work-life balance they should have, where they should go on holiday etc. They are all tiresome bores trying to assert some imagined superiority, or too dim to understand that everyone is different. And people upset by them have a chip on their shoulder, or they wouldn't be bothered by their tiresome boringness.

I know some one like this. I've distanced myself from her. Always going on about her new designer bag, or luxury holiday, etc etc. I always oohed and aahed appropriately. But she got worse and worse until one day she shrieked at me about how I couldn't possibly be happy living my miserable life. My life is not miserable, I like my life and prefer being a single parent rather than co habiting etc. I really don't know what her intentions were other than to try and make me envy her and hate myself.