Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

&do you think it would be worth considering if you're picking the wrong kind of men@Theyroamoverhere? Not every man runs off with a new woman*
I've only had 2 relationships, not really bothered over a partner. Wouldn't waste my time on an empty investment there are much more rewarding uses of time and energy, like career, children, hobbies. Just pop on the relationships board!

I do know where you're coming from op. A lot of my friends/colleagues don't really seem to understand how much financially better off than me they are just because I'm a lone parent.

That's not to say I bang on about being skint all the time but I do in all honesty sometimes look at the lives others have, who do the same job as me on reduced hours and feel some envy me and DD don't have that.

@windygallows - it’s tough on your own, which is why for most of human history humans have banded together - in clans, extended families etc.

The nuclear family is perhaps something of an anomaly in that it is more separate. I guess it is interesting to reflect on the causes/effects of this and how we can best support people. Perhaps giving some funding to people who would like to move to be closer to particular family/friends who could lend support with childcare would be sensible (I understand this isn’t an option for everyone but it might help some people).

Housing is a huge issue - for singles and families. I think having housing stability might help many.

"Access to a man's money" is inflammatory bullshit. Men choose to have partners and children, it's not like a woman is a mugger who follows him around with her hand in his wallet!!

It’s only inflammatory bullshit in the sense that it touches a nerve.

You’re right that men choose to have a wife and DC. But generally the wife is working at that point. How many threads do you see on here of women who don’t want to return to work when the DC go to school? Happy to leave the burden on their DH to keep them whilst they fanny about in the garden and stay home “in case the school rings”

If I was the man in that situation I’d certainly feel bloody mugged!

Anecdote is not data. You've extroplated wildy from two personal experiences.

Also, I believe the reason so many women are still taking most if the time out of work to have kids is becuase they are alrwady earning less than their male partners and as a couple they make the obvious financial decision. We really need to look at the factors that are causing pay gaps between young men and women before kids.

It’s only inflammatory bullshit in the sense that it touches a nerve.

For whom? Everyone who makes different choices to you?

Not for me, nor for DH. I'd be genuinely upset if he felt 'beholden' to me in any way when he was at home with DCs and I was working. I didn't feel like that when the roles were reversed. They were the choices we made, as a couple. If anything, the most criticism we had was for DH, from other men. But that's a different thread I suppose.

I supported my husband when we first graduated because it took him a lot longer to find a job.
I was on a higher salary than him for six years. Then I decided to change and do something I loved, taking a salary cut in the process.
I’m now pregnant so will take time off next year all being well and then pick up the same work in a freelance capacity. I won’t be earning as much as my husband, and I’ll have downtimes, but he will support me as I supported him.
I don’t see this as me having access to a man’s money, but rather it being our shared income.
If I end up being a SAHM part time and freelancing part time, he will support me in that because it makes no sense for the current higher earner (him) to give up his job and look after children. It’s a partnership.

I think your attitude is an odd one.

windygallows - do you really think that these women are forgetting how much easier life is when someone helps with the cash flow?

Yes @Walkaround, that's the whole point of the thread - the naturalizing of a lifestyle that happens when one expects and is used to a salary that comes from someone else supporting their existence. It is in general hard to live on one salary, men and women, but god I'm tired of hearing of women quitting work because their DH has a good salary or reducing their hours because DH got a promotion or because they want a good life work balance deciding to take a year off because someone else pays the bills and then having to listen to them chat like everyone has this option.

Another example - Both of my moms (mom/stepmom) have never worked and have fabulous lifestyles that they very much take as normal. The shit they say sometimes that takes for granted their life is nuts. After 30+ years they use the language of entitlement around what they have (as in they deserve this) rather than acknowledging their real circumstances.

Whod've thought that lifestyle was dependent on whether you partnered with someone, and who, and not what you did yourself?

Also let's not forget those of us women who married partners who earn less/ work part time and we are the main earners and cant afford the privilege of relying on Male earnings

we live in a society that preferences married people

Most of the thread is not about married people but married PARENTS for a start. Your posts really don't come across as fed up with society, but jealous of women who you think live off their husband. When you translate "shared finance in a family" by "women with access to man's money", it's just you having an issue and attitude.

I don’t think this a man/women thing, but just that life is more expensive for single people as it costs nearly as much to run a home for 1 as it does for 2. Single women are more likely to have children and bear the brunt of the financial cost of bringing up a child. Women are also more likely to be in lower paid work and more likely to have gaps in their employment.

I'm tired of hearing of women quitting work because their DH has a good salary or reducing their hours because DH got a promotion or because they want a good life work balance deciding to take a year off because someone else pays the bills and then having to listen to them chat like everyone has this option.

So basically you are just jealous. Why do you make it about women?
Again, what about the MEN who quit their job?

What about MEN who take early retirement because they are supported by their working wives,
What about men who quit, and take a few years off to study and retrain,
What about men who quit, and start a business,

Couples help each other out, parents help their kids, siblings help each other. Surely that should be seen as a positive, not just make other people jealous.

I think jealousy has made you bitter about other people’s circumstances, and you’ve dressed it up as some sort of bizarre crusade against the patriarchy so you can justify your misplaced anger.

The assumption that women rely on men’s money is just breathtaking!

As for this gem (not from OP);

But the other side of the coin is that we have independence and self respect.

Talk about protesting too much!

Look - if you want more money, work harder. Change jobs. Save.

I’m simplifying, right? Thinking in black and white instead of understanding the nuances?

That’s what you’re doing!

FWIW - both my dh and I could walk away tomorrow. Neither of us would struggle financially. Both of us could afford to keep the house on our own. So I have no horse in this race, so to speak.

But come on! If you’re jealous of other people’s circumstances just say it. We’re all human! We all get jealous sometimes.

I understand what you mean OP. As a single parent trying to make things work financially I am acutely aware of the fact that if I didn’t get tax credit support I’d be financially stuck. My wage doesn’t cover my outgoings but if I was with someone providing a second income to the household there wouldn’t be any problem at all financially.

I’m taking steps to improve my earning power but will need to be on a minimum of £12 hr to cover basics.

I understand what you mean OP.

At my place of work the workforce is made up of about 95% of women. About 75% of those don't need to work as their partners earn enough to support them.

My good friend is one of them. Her dh is a high tax earned and sometimes she struggles to understand why I can't eat out five times per week or I can't just buy what I want when I want. That I need to save for things. I love my friend a lot and I am not jealous of her life.

Windygallows - Why do you so frequently start threads about “women with access to men’s money” / “SAHMs” etc? Why? You clearly have a massive chip in your shoulder for whatever reason. What was the last thread? I think it was something about - “Oh I’m so worried that x% of women in the UK are economically vulnerable because they aren’t working (unlike the independent, self-respecting me)!” You always include some “stats” as well, as if this will persuade anyone you’re less biased.

So what do you actually want people to do exactly? Everyone to be single like you? Nobody to ever share money and be “independent” like you? Salaries capped so that nobody can earn more than you? Women forced to return to work so that they can be like you? Everyone to have the same number of children as you? What is it?

There is an element of good fortune in choice of life partner for some people (not just women) Those who end up with a partner who is successful financially which enables a 5 star lifestyle are fortunate but only if their partner is one who adds value emotionally in their life as money isn’t everything.

One of my best friends has a very successful husband and this enables her to stay at home and pursue her hobbbies when the kids are at school. You would think she has it all but she is deeply unhappy with the lack of connection in her marriage. They haven’t slept together for over a year and she doesn’t really like him very much. She has left herself very vulnerable financially in the event of a split though

I think you run the risk of arguing away the need for men to take any responsibility towards their families. Its tough being a single parent because you are still supporting the fathers career but not benefiting from it. I dont think being cross at the women who have support of their childrens father is the right group of people to be cross at. Its how it should be. They dont have to all live together in a happy bubble but assets accrued together should be split and looking after/financing the child should be shared . My sister saw £15 a month for 3 months in child maintenance and everything else was on her. She isnt cross with the women that got support. Shes cross with the low life who has a child that hasnt stopped his work ever to pick up his child who is sick and has never paid for a meal.

I think you just sound envious and embittered about your situation. Whatever happened to being happy for others? Not everyone can empathise with the lives of others, sounds like they aren't sympathising with your life and you're definitely not putting yourself in their shoes.

It sounds like you're doing a great job, everyone has their struggles, you just cant see them.

I really dislike the expression about having to mens money!!

My husband earns more than double my wage but I feel that I have enabled that for him (!) by being the one to take maternity leave and to drop to part time whilst the children were little (that wasn’t a luxury, it was harder than work!!)

I am now back at work full time and unlikely to catch up on his wage, but my job is more flexible around our children etc

I think that I have a right to what you are calling ‘his’ money. It is household money, which I facilitate.

I can imagine that two parents (men/women whatever) is easier but it’s a partnership, it’s not one free loading from the other.

But windygallows - salaries and incomes don't always reflect effort or deserved reward, either. To try to change the obvious fact that two incomes will always leave you better off than one, and two people sharing the emotional, intellectual, physical and financial load of life in a kind and considerate way with each other will always be better off than someone trying to do everything by themselves is daft. Whether you like it or not, or people talk about it or not, that will always be the case. Yes, of course there is a huge amount of luck involved in this, not just skill - the same applies to absolutely everything, including careers and financial independence.

I kind of get where you’re coming from OP; I work in education which is female dominated (apart from at the very top!)
A high proportion of the female staff work only part time (and I’m not talking about just women with small children) and there is also quite a significant number who are ‘underemployed’ (eg graduates/ qualified teachers who work as LSAs / admin)
I regularly get asked why I don’t work part time, yet I’m sure none of the Male staff get asked that. Tbh as a middle manager I don’t think my role would lend itself to pt hours but more importantly I don’t want to screw up my pension.
Of course there is nothing wrong with working pt or in a low paid job which is below your level of qualification and ability IF you understand the long term impact of it. I do think though that a hell of a lot of women who work few hours or low paid work, and who can do so because they have a higher earning husband who is prepared to work more hours, have very little idea of how vulnerable they are making themselves. I’m not talking just the possibility of splitting; there’s also the fact they aren’t building good pensions for themselves. The happiest marriage in the world isn’t protection against illness and death.
So i do kind of get what you mean, that some women can become quite complacent, but of course in the long run it’s far better to be earning on a par with your partner rather than having a huge disparity in earning power

There is a reason radfems equate marriage with sex work: in both situations you're often being paid as a female by a male, just different contexts. Sex workers are arguably more independent and certainly financially free. What they get is theirs without conditions imposed the rest of the time.