Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

The OP was also talking about women who work PT as well as SAHP.
I work three days a week and earn well over the average salary just for those three days. I spent years being the main breadwinner and earning more PT than DH did FT. Later in the year I'll be going FT but working a fair bit from home, and earning more than DH again. We talked about him going PT and me being FT when the girls were little, he didn't want to, but at least he has had the option to do this as well. So you don't know what people's circumstances are.

I'm sure most women would be well-able to support themselves and their families if their husband walked out, but people cut their cloth and make arrangements accordingly. Generally most couples would prefer not to have both people in the couple flogging their guts out and working long hours in a demanding job if they don't have to,and especially with young children as it just doesn't work.

“Most married women who go PT or are SAHM are screwed if their husbands leave.”

How do you know that? What’s your evidence?

How “screwed” you are on divorce spends in the overall wealth and assets which are split following the divorce settlement.

Apart from women who can’t afford to work or have children who require special support (which is another issue entirely), most women who become SAHMs do so precisely because they know they would be ok in the event if divorce.

This is why there are higher proportions of SAHMs in wealthier areas because the DHs are very high-earners; the wives are aware of the family assets and know that they would not need to rush to work instantly if there was a separation. Women are not stupid and do not give up good careers for nothing, I can assure you of that. Yes men hide money, etc, but you can’t hide everything and you can’t hide your house. Most SAHMs know exactly where they stand and they are not financially vulnerable at all. I know MN likes to trot or that line, but it’s by now means inevitable. How financially vulnerable you are depends on family assets v levels of debt / mortgage, etc.

YANBU. What windygallows said. I know at least 2 women who are freelance artists. Always smiling and full of vigour and vim and following their passion. Only able to because of their exhausted husbands falling through the door at 7pm every night from a full on corporate job

And plenty of men love their jobs and do really well at work, climbing the ladder with ease, because they have a wife at home who takes care of everything for them.

Bazaar, chill!

You write 'Your characterisation is simply offensive to a swathe of women making perfectly conscious and necessary choices to balance work and family.'

It's interesting how you frame this and it's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm single and have no choice but to work FT. You may not see this but your choice is actually a luxury - no need to make it out as a sacrifice.

I'm a SAHM - bring the comments on

Can I ask why you imagine that all women living with men have access to extra money? My husband was made redundant and I was the sole earner. I'd have been better off without him - council tax discount, no food or bus fares to pay on his behalf - but that's life and that's what people do.

Some single women are better off than low-paid couples.

Take the chip off your shoulder stop assuming you know about everyone's circumstances. You don't.

But the other side of the coin is that we have independence and self respect. You can’t buy those. It’s annoying but you really can’t let stuff like this get to you

😂

This is why there are higher proportions of SAHMs in wealthier areas because the DHs are very high-earners

and how many of these couples actually live in wealthy areas because the wives are the ones who paid the deposit and got the mortgage together? How many of these wives are perfectly able to be comfortable financially, have assets in their own names?

Are we still picturing all women as idiots who need a man to feed them? Are we not past that yet?

I am feeling a lot of jealousy around, so that would explain it.

Surely exactly the same thing applies to men. If you said, "People who forget not everyone has access to money from a partner." I'd absolutely say YANBU.

I think among younger people lots of women earn the same or more than a male partner, I know my DD earns more than her husband, I know my DIL earns more than my son, I know DDs best friend earns more than her husband.

It's easier with help, but I know a few people who bought their first property with a friend or a sibling.

let's not make it about women shall we.

But Windy - if you do ever re-marry then you too might have different choices.

If you did ever experience being a SAHM, you would realise that it’s a privilege in some ways and a a sacrifice in others. Just like having a job. It just depends on what you see as the greater sacrifice that determines what you do.

You can’t have a go at people just because they’re married!

It's interesting how you frame this and it's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm single and have no choice but to work FT. You may not see this but your choice is actually a luxury - no need to make it out as a sacrifice. And others, men and women, have to make different choices, cut their cloth to match their purse. They just have a different cloth and a different purse to you! It may seem like a choice to oyu, sometimes it is, sometimes not so much. Are those who choose to work part time not allowed to speak about their lives?

What is it you want to happen?

What is your actual AIBU?

I earn more than dh (nearly double), does this mean he has no self respect?

This is funny
'I work in a creative field and see this a lot. A lot of women reducing their hours and claiming everyone 'should do what they love' by setting up a cake baking business or making lavender soap or becoming 'a consultant'

The women I know work as nurses, probation officers, teachers, in the financial sector etc. There's quite a lot of money round here and it's quite poncey and yet still the women aren't all like eddie monsoon out of abfab 😁

It's interesting how you frame this and it's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm single and have no choice but to work FT. You may not see this but your choice is actually a luxury - no need to make it out as a sacrifice. We don't all have the same circumstances, that is just how life is. We don't have to go for the lowest level for everyone.

I've brought up 4 kids, worked as the main wage earner and been a carer for 30 years for my disabled husband. So I would get home from work, cook, help with homework, do housework and then when the kids were in bed I might be found on my knees washing, moisturising and doing general footcare for my husband, or everynight helping a man 8 inches taller than me and double my weight to shower and get into bed. I don't think everyone should have to do that or feel that everyone should have avoided saying their husband would have dinner ready for them or he needed to cut the grass. My problems not theirs.

Hmmm, this is a bit of a bizarre thread as others have said. It seems you have come across some very tactless and thoughtless women who haven't considered other people's differing financial positions.

I think in society now we all have friends who are at different stages in relationships: some married, some divorced, some separated, some remarried and I (and most people I know) don't at all consider it 'the norm' as you put to have shared finances.

I also think you need to chose your words more wisely. Your point about privilege in marriage is not about 'access to men's money' it's about pooled finances and the fact that when you're married, most families pool money together for household/holidays etc as there are two incomes and yes, this does have an advantage to single mothers and fathers. But this isn't something I think most people don't realise!

I also earn substantially more than my husband. By your argument he should consider himself very lucky to have 'access to' my salary otherwise we couldn't afford the house, the holidays and many other things. And when we have baby 1 (due end of the year) he'll be the one going part time or becoming a SAHD as that's what will work for us. But he doesn't consider himself 'lucky', nor should he. Our salaries differed over our marriage but we continue to pool them together.

I've been married to DH for 19 years and in all that time I've never had access to his account(s). He gives me 'housekeeping' and I get the child benefit (2 children), but most of that goes into savings for the kids and the general running of the household.
At most each month I get £200 to spend on myself (clothes, cinema, eating out).
But because I'm self employed (as a domestic cleaner), and couldn't even upgrade my car as he's old fashioned and thinks any car we own HAS to be run into the ground!
So in effect, if anything happened to him mentally or he disapeared, I'd have literaly no access to the family funds.
I'm just thankful, that our DDs are almost adults and can soon earn money to help with the household bills.
It's not that we haven't go money.
He's just very mean with it

The phrasing 'access to men's money' is really really odd.

Tbh they're probably just making conversation and being a bit oblivious to the circumstances of others?

I've been on both sides of this coin. Was a single parent for a long time and wasn't able to afford many holidays and luxuries. I met my dp 5 years ago and now I am fortunate enough to have a few more treats because we are a partnership and can do these things together.

When I was single I never begrudged any other woman who was able to do these things because they were in a relationship - although I imagine I probably felt a bit jealous at times.

I get that there's a big thing about being an independent woman and not needing no man etcetera. But just look at some of the finance threads on here and you'll see the vast majority of people believe that a family's money should be shared and enjoyed together.

it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income

I agree. Our society is organised on the assumption that most people are in couples - whether partners are working is sometimes not the issue - but people assume that there is the potential for 2 incomes.

This becomes really problematic when an organisation is faced with redundancies (as my sector is at the moment). People have automatic sympathy for men with families. Actually, it's the single people - and single women in particular - who really face difficulties. In a couple, if one partner is made redundant the other partner can usually pick up the slack a bit. There's at least another income.

When it's a single person, there is literally no-one else. And have you seen the benefits for single people? They're expected to live in shared houses or hostels etc etc.

It happens on MN all the time- people say "Oh you should just have a spa weekend/go on holiday to Florida/move to a nicer area/buy yourself a designer handbag/give up work" etc etc. But it's a general naïvety about other people's financial situations imo, not a specific assumption that they have a male partner's salary to rely on.

After all, there are plenty of married couples who struggle financially and plenty of single people who are high earners.

YABU. You just need to be generally tolerant of the fact people have different financial situations. Two incomes, irrespective of gender, will always be easier than one. There will always be something that will annoy you.

Also "men's money"... you've internalised some serious misogyny if you're thinking that way.

Agree with @twirlypoo. I guess those of us without children with special needs or elderly parents who we care for or marital problems can forget about other people’s struggles. But I guess we shouldn’t really assume that just because someone is comfortable financially or married or whatever, that life is necessarily easy or better. Just be grateful for what we have and sympathetic to those with problems.

This is a very odd way to read that statistics.

Many women have access to support from the fathers of their children. (so, in your words 'access to someone else's salary')

Many women earn high salaries.

Many women who live alone are widows and may have a widow's pension.

Not all men have a income.

Etc

I live alone, no kids, never married, in my 50's, always supported myself and probably have more income and savings than most families I know.

The 34% or whatever does not necessarily mean people have no other income or are broke and the 66% are not all rich!

Some people are just thoughtless about others' circumstances. It's really stupid to put people in situations where they feel uncomfortable about not being able to keep up, and it's not limited to married women.

Windy and yet I’m being told by other posters that women who make this kind of economic ‘choice’ are stupid/naive/will end up in impoverished old age. As if women have no agency to assess what makes economic sense in a family context. I’m perfectly capable of doing that.

Your OP is extremely judgmental that women with higher earning husbands who work less/earn less occupy some kind if ivory tower privilege. If childcare wasn’t so extortionately expensive, and employers weren’t so inflexible about returning to a career part time temporarily, I’m sure more women would be out there with equal earning potential to their ‘men’.

Your OP just does misogyny’s work.